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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
HELP! A Few Kois Flashing!

 






 


parepaul
Koi Lover

Aug 26, 2008, 9:29 AM

Post #1 of 9 (975 views)
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HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! Can't Post


Hello everyone,
Iam new to this forum so please be nice =]
I purchased a few kois 12 days ago, and just got done putting them in the pond 3 days ago. Since then, i have noticed 4 of my kois flashing(scratching.) I have a total of 9 kois ranging from 6" to 20", prior to the addition of the new kois, i did not see any of my kois flashing, so it leads me to believe that this came from the new kois, or it could have been the rain the past few days. I have yet to do a water reading. All my test strips ran-out and the pet store is closed, so i have to wait until tomorrow to get more. I usually just test for pH, but after reading a few threads i found out that i need to test more water parameters, could anyone tell me what i should test for. So in conclusion, i need koi lovers who have experienced or have vast knowledge on this matter, any form of help will be greatly appreciated. So please help me cure my kois that are currently flashing. thanks in advance!


Goders
New User

Aug 29, 2008, 5:22 PM

Post #2 of 9 (903 views)
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Re: [parepaul] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey mate,

There are atl east 3 things to check for: PH, Nitrite and Amonia. PH should be about 7.5 with Nitrite and Amonia both at 0. Depending on how established you pond is you should be checking these levels on a regular basis and doing regular water changes of about 10%. Forget about the strip tests as they are pants. You need to go for the liquid drop tests or the tablet form as they are much more reliable.

How often are they flashing - is it constant or just a couple of times a day? It's normal for fish to flash occasionaly - its just their way of having a scratch, but persistant flashing indicates further issues.

If its persistant flashing and since you've introduced new fish to your pond I would hazard a guess that you have white spot as this is most common. This is by no means conclusive, so I would suggest you net up one of your fish and take if for a painless scrape at your nearest koi centre. They will be able to identify the parasite and supply you with the correct medication. O you will also need to tell them the pond water volume in order to establish the correct dossage. What ever you do, do not be tempted to over dose as this can and probably will cause further issues and doesn't spead up the healing!

Good luck.


choo
Koi Lover

Aug 29, 2008, 11:22 PM

Post #3 of 9 (888 views)
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Re: [parepaul] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post

While you investigate the water parameter, you could add salt to 0.1 to 0.2 level (ie 1ton = 1Kg salt, IMHO max 0.4 level ) to stablise the koi first. Most of the case i am faced with is the new kois has introduced new bacteria which are infecting them or the existing bacteria in your pond is infecting the new kois.


(This post was edited by choo on Aug 29, 2008, 11:25 PM)


parepaul
Koi Lover

Aug 30, 2008, 4:00 PM

Post #4 of 9 (846 views)
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Re: [Goders] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hey mate,

There are atl east 3 things to check for: PH, Nitrite and Amonia. PH should be about 7.5 with Nitrite and Amonia both at 0. Depending on how established you pond is you should be checking these levels on a regular basis and doing regular water changes of about 10%. Forget about the strip tests as they are pants. You need to go for the liquid drop tests or the tablet form as they are much more reliable.

How often are they flashing - is it constant or just a couple of times a day? It's normal for fish to flash occasionaly - its just their way of having a scratch, but persistant flashing indicates further issues.

If its persistant flashing and since you've introduced new fish to your pond I would hazard a guess that you have white spot as this is most common. This is by no means conclusive, so I would suggest you net up one of your fish and take if for a painless scrape at your nearest koi centre. They will be able to identify the parasite and supply you with the correct medication. O you will also need to tell them the pond water volume in order to establish the correct dossage. What ever you do, do not be tempted to over dose as this can and probably will cause further issues and doesn't spead up the healing!

Good luck.


Thanks for the reply, kois flashing occurs usually after feeding, ph is 7.6 ammonia 0 and i still have to do a nitrite reading, new pond, new kois, turned off UV light for faster bacteria growth. I spot redness and white thing on the tail of my ginrin tancho sanke and im not sure if it was damaged or some sort of bacteria, thats about it the rest of my kois have nothing visible, just flashing. The kois are very active and eat regularly, though I have cut down the feeding to twice or three times per day. I will get a nitrite drop test tomorrow and inform you all on what is the reading. Also, I would like to ask if anyone ever tried using salt, melafix, pimafix to combat any koi symptoms, any knowledge on melafix or pimafix would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!



(This post was edited by parepaul on Aug 30, 2008, 4:03 PM)


Goders
New User

Aug 31, 2008, 2:55 AM

Post #5 of 9 (822 views)
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Re: [parepaul] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Koi can sometimes flash after feeding due to the dust that gets collected around their food which in turn can irritate them - this perfectly normal. Any constant flashing (say 5+ times a minute) can indicate issues. Since you pond is new I'm guessing you are experiencing new pond syndrone. Depending on what stage your pond is at and given your results I would say the nitrite may be causing the issue. We wont know this for sure until you do your nitrite testing.

If the nitrite is high keep doing regular water changes and reduce the feeding. You're doing the right thing by keeping the uv off as this will help speed up the filter bateria process, but your typically looking at a minimum of 6 months before the filter is fully up to speed. The redness is probaly due to the flashing which as mentioned before could be either a bacterial infection (identified by a scrape) or high nitrite. The "white thing" could possibly be carp pox which is not a problem, but normally heals / goes at higher pond temps.

Your best bet is to get the nitrite readings, if its low of even better at 0, take the fish for a scape as this will be the only way of identifying the true cause.


parepaul
Koi Lover

Aug 31, 2008, 5:41 AM

Post #6 of 9 (818 views)
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Re: [Goders] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks everyone for all the help you are giving me, although I have some bad news regarding my koi. After doing ammonia, nitrite readings just a minute ago, both nitrite and ammonia were 0(zero), the only abnormal reading is the ph which is 7.4-7.6 So my problem is not water quality but rather an internal or external infection. I live in Hawaii and have no koi vet around that could do a scrape, I would do it if I knew how and had the materials but I dont =\ All of my Kois are fine, eating regularly, very active, no swimming problems or skin/fin problems except my ginrin tancho sanke which has some redness on the tail fin. Is there another way of determining the sickness of a koi other than a scrape? Also, another observation I have made, there are only 3-4 kois that are now flashing compared to 6-7 flashing a few days ago, maybe there is a light shining on this dark tunnel that I'am going through right now. So please help me, determine the problem my kois are facing; please keep in mind that there is no ammon, nitrite, just a medium high reading of ph (7.4-7.6) also, the pond water and filter have only been running for about a week, the kois have only been purchased almost 2 weeks ago. I was also thinking of putting salt into my pond but I'm afraid of killing or damaging my kois; I have also been reading about PIMAFIX and MELAFIX from API and seemed like it would solve my problem. Anyone who has used this product, please put your input and or experience! Thanks in advance!


Goders
New User

Aug 31, 2008, 11:35 PM

Post #7 of 9 (785 views)
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Re: [parepaul] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, Your ph level is fine so no concern there. It's good news that fewer of your koi are flashing - maybe they are settling in to their new surroundings. Personally I would not be too concerned at the moment and just play the waiting & watching game. If the flashing does become more persistant or an increase in the number of koi flashing then it may be time for some action.

I'm supprised that the shop / centre that you bought your koi from are not able to do a scrape for you - you don't necessarialy need a koi doctor for this. You could always invest in a microscope and a teach-your-self kit. Unfortunatly most of the bugs and koi nasties are microscopic so there is no real way of just looking at a fish and performing a correct diagnoses.

Salt could be added as mentioned above by Choo using the stated dosage to help calm them down for the time being. Low dosages of salt will not cause any problems. Antoher alternative is Virkon S tablets. I've used these in the past when introducing new fish just to catch any little nasties that may be present, so this may also be an option. Both salt and Virkon S will not damage the good bacteria in your filter so this would be the recommend solution if you want to use any treatment. Other treatment like Malachite Green & Formalin are common treatments for most bacteria, but these can harm the good bacteria in your filter, so you do need to be carfull when using chemicals in your pond! Melaflex & Pimafix are mainly used for damaged body cells, so if theres only a slight redness then just monitor the fish as this may go after a week or two. If there are raised scales or obvious body damage then use these.

Since your pond is new you will sooner or later go through the dreded Ammonia & Nitrite spikes - this will in turn cause your koi's to flash so keep an eye on your water parameters and keep doing small (5-10%) regular water changes. This happens when your filter bacteria starts to kick in to life and will eventually settle down.


parepaul
Koi Lover

Sep 1, 2008, 8:33 AM

Post #8 of 9 (772 views)
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Re: [Goders] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks a bunch on the information Goders! Do you know where I could buy these Virkon S tablets? Also, do I just add it to the pond? Or in a quarantine tank? I'll wait a bit until I take drastic actions, I'am currently doing 10% water change daily. Noticed only a few flashing today, so it helps to think that they are getting better! Once again thanks!.



Goders
New User

Sep 1, 2008, 8:09 PM

Post #9 of 9 (747 views)
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Re: [parepaul] HELP! A Few Kois Flashing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, I got my tablets from my local koi center, but it is quite widely available on the net. Normally you just dissolve the correct dosage for your pond in a bucket of pond water. When fully dissolved just pour around the pond - no need for quarantine. I then rinse out the bucket with more pond water just to stir things up and help the mixing process. Of course this is not a substitute for quarantining new fish which is always recommended, but can help for those without quarantine facilities.

It's good news that things are calming down and looks like your doing the right thing by being patient. It's hard work at first, but things do get better. You may be better cutting down the water changes to about 5-10% every couple of days since things are settling down. This will also help get your filter bacteria growing. I'm not familiar with the water content in Hawaii, but here in the UK we have Chlorine added to it which can also harm the koi. If you have Chlorine in your water you may want to invest in a dechlorinating filter tank or similar method for removing it during your water changes.

 
 
 



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