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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now

 






 


leongcw2000
Koi Lover

Jul 3, 2001, 2:45 PM

Post #1 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now Can't Post

Hi there,

I have just add in 2 6" KOI into the pond 4 days ago. It is OK but just after last night rain, the KOI in dying now. I don't know what is the problem and suspect it is infection, therefore, i use the Anti fungus and bacteria infection. It is not working at all. This KOI will eventually die too. Therefore, i check on the PH level and found out it is on PH 6.0. What is the cause of the PH drop ? Is my filter system not working ? I am using the wet filter system with 4 chamber. Chamber 1 with green mats, chamber 2 with 100 bioball and chamber 3 with coral chips. As the result of KOI is dying completely, i decide to change 80% of the water. In fact, after water changing, seems like the PH is still remain. So, i test the tap water and it give me PH 7.2. Why the PH is still maintain in 6.0 after 80% of water changes ? How do i increase the PH as it is now too acidic ?


denniskweh
Koi Lover

Jul 3, 2001, 10:08 PM

Post #2 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

hi Leong
with a PH of 6.0, it means your water is acidic or what we called PH crash. There are several factors to consider:

1. The rainwater might be acidic in the first place and it added on it till the situation worsened over a period of time. If this is the case, you need to change water daily. Do a PH test of the rainwater and see the results - do let us know.

2. Your second chamber is filled with bioballs. Well in a wet submerged system like in the second chamber, bio balls are almost useless. They worked best with wet/dry system like the trickle filter where water passes through the bioballs over a large surface area. I suggest you either build a trickle filter (a simple container with little holes below and filled it with your bioballs, layers of mats and lava chips if available) or replace the bioballs with other materials like green matts.

3. I noticed you do not have buffer materials to prevent a PH crash. GET THEM IMMEDIATELY - learn from my experience when I had on a few occasions had a PH crash down to 4.5! and luckily no fishes died. Get at least 20 kg of coral chips or oyster shells fast in view of your pond size. For my fibre glass tank of about 300 gallons, my 10 kg of coral chips are more than adequate and maintains my water at 8.5 PH.

4. Lastly, re-examine your entire biofilter flow system. Is it set up properly? No clogging somewhere? Read under "Pond Water Quality" forum of this website where my water situation is being discussed.

Regards
Dennis


Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Jul 4, 2001, 1:26 AM

Post #3 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Leong

If am not mistaken you mentioned in another thread that your pond size is 4' X 2' X 1.5' which works out to be 90 U.S. gallons or 75 Imperial gallons which means you need just a small amount of oyster/corals probably about 2.5 kg will do considering Dennis's 300 gallon pond has 10 kg of corals to act as an alkaline buffer.

Also don't forget to ensure adequate aeration in the pond. Important for the fish as well as the bio-filter as good bacteria require loads of oxygen to do the task of eating ammonia/nitrites. Some go to the extent of putting air stones or a venturi in the filter box itself!

Go for it, Leong. It's challenging being a koi lover. So many "enemies" of koi to conquer but hey, that's what makes the hobby interesting, right?

Best regards

Koi Apprentice


leongcw2000
Koi Lover

Jul 4, 2001, 2:18 AM

Post #4 of 14 (2258 views)
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Hi Joshua and Dennis,

I am really a challenge to tackle all the enemies. I had put in 2kg of coral chips in chamber 3. By the way Dennis, the bioballs in chamber is fully cover by the running water within the filteration system, therefore, it is consider 100% in wet condition. So, do i need to add in more in order to fulfill it as dry and wet condition ?


Mark
Koi Kichi

Jul 4, 2001, 2:35 AM

Post #5 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Leong
Please dump at least 250gm of baking soda into the pond immediately. This will help to bring back the pH to around 7.

I am not sure what are your other water readings. If you could post them it will be helpful.

Coming to your 2kg of coral shells, the small amount is of little use. I recommend 10kg(for most situation) to buffer the pH. More than enough for most pond/tank. More does not make any different.

Good luck.


leongcw2000
Koi Lover

Jul 4, 2001, 8:48 AM

Post #6 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your recommendation. The PH level is at 7.0 to 7.5 now. Do i need to monitor for another 2 days before adding in new KOI into it ? I am a bit worry that the PH will drop again once the pond catch rain water.

Well, on the nitrate and nitrite, how is this affect the health of the KOI ? According to some member, the nitrate might be a serious killer of KOI, why ?


Mark
Koi Kichi

Jul 4, 2001, 1:48 PM

Post #7 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

We will be dead worry if we don't get your post on water test for ammonia and nitrites.
Ammonia and nitrites could tell us whether your filter system is working or not.

Without them we will be just guessing and may also give you wrong pointers.

As for nitrates, I have very little worry but I will not neglect the test as well. Any reading greater than 250 is harmful to the koi.

(This post was edited by Mark Richman on Apr 7, 2001, 2:00 PM)


Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Jul 5, 2001, 1:03 AM

Post #8 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Leong

So, how are your little koi getting on? Hope your koi are doing OK after the PH stabilised to 7.5. I have lost count - how many surviving koi do you have now in the pond? And the little one that was scraping himself against the bottom of the pond (this is called "flashing" among the koi community), is he doing fine?

Before you add any more new koi, you may do well to get these two weopons handy first

i) Baking soda. You need to dump this into the pond in case the PH crashes again. Mark recommends throwing in up to 250 gm if the PH crashes again.

ii) Test kits for ammonia and nitrites. Ammonia and nitrites are toxic substances that destroy the gill filaments of the fish and causes stress in the fish eventually leading to weakness in resistance to parasites and diseases. Cost of a kit is usually less than the cost of a koi. We won't be able to sleep until you post the results. [biggrin]

If the readings turn out acceptable, then you can consider adding new fish but try to quarantine them first and if possible get them from another dealer.If you can't quarantine them first, I suppose you can treat the whole lot with salt solution or medicine to eradicate bad bugs.

You asked about a wet and dry system and whether increasing the number of mats makes it a wet and dry system. It doesn't, so long as the water does not pass through air before reaching the media and so long as the media is still submerged. The principle of a wet and dry system is that water trickles down the air (thus absorbing lots of oxygen) and then passes through mats or bio-balls (positioned above the water line, i.e. not submerged in water).The effect of water passing through the dry air and I guess that's where the term "dry" is adopted to describe the system aerates the water. To increase the trickling effect, small holes can be drilled onto the PVC pipe above the media or a sprinkler head can be used to spread out the water.

The effect of the mats not being submerged in water also increases the exposure to oxygen and the oxygen loving bacteria in the media throw a party eating up ammonia and nitrites, and producing less harmful nitrates as a by product.

Something about nitrates which I picked up from the bulletin board. Theoretically, aerobic (oxygen loving) bacteria cannot denitrify nitrates by converting them into harmless nitrogen gas. Apparently there is a type of anaerobic (oxygen hating) bacteria that can do that but you cannot find them in an oxygen rich environment of a properly set up filter system. That's in theory. In practice, many die-hard trickle filter owners will swear their trickle filter removes nitrates as well. How, nobody knows for sure.

Algae and water plants do remove nitrates from the water by eating them as food but some ponds with trickle systems do not have water plants and very little algae (that green stuff that loves sunshine) and yet show very low nitrates level. In theory it should show tons of nitrates since the efficient trickle system works overtime converting nitrites to nitrates. It's a mystery waiting to be solved.

Hope I have not confused you. Just concentrate on keeping good water and having fun with your koi! Smile

Best regards


denniskweh
Koi Lover

Jul 12, 2001, 7:11 AM

Post #9 of 14 (2258 views)
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hi leong
regarding the bioballs which are submerged which are practically useless for using them as a bio media. I advise you "sacrifice" the bioballs for a trickle filter later. Get instead green matts to fill up your second chamber - just make sure that the green matts are placed in the direction of the water flow.

regards
Dennis


dttk
Senior Member

Jul 12, 2001, 11:31 PM

Post #10 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, bioballs may not be very ideal as a bio-media for submerged filter, they however do provide a means for bacterial colonisation. They are easier to clean than corals and are not 'practically useless'. I also agree that they can be put into good use in a trickle tower filter. Smile


JT818
Koi Lover

Nov 8, 2001, 12:54 AM

Post #11 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

Is it ok to use crushed oyster shells to help buffer up the ph level? I just bought a small box of crushed oyster (fresh) for my parrot, providing it with calcium. Well is it ok to use it for my small fg tank?


johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Nov 8, 2001, 5:34 AM

Post #12 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi JT818

Yes, it is OK to use oyster shells to act as a buffer for your pH. I do not what is the size of your pond/tank but you need at least 10kg of the shells for it to be effective! Smile

What is your current pH reading? Is it stable? You can also add baking soda to stabilise your pH level at 8.0-8.4. Hope this is helpful info!

Rgds
Johnson


JT818
Koi Lover

Nov 9, 2001, 12:15 AM

Post #13 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi jtklee

Thanks for the reply. I have a small fg tank, it's only 100 gallon. Planning on building a 1000 gallon pond in a couple of months. Anyway, my water parameter is ok, except the ph level, it's low, at 6.2 to 6.5, so would 10 kg of oyster shell works for a fg tank that small??


johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Nov 9, 2001, 1:46 AM

Post #14 of 14 (2258 views)
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Help, PH is in 6.0 KOI is dying now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi JT818

pH 6.2-6.5 is a little low for kois. I would advise adding 250gm of soda bicarbonate immediately to increase the pH level above 7.0. Don't worry, there is no danger of an overdose of soda bicarbonate. This should be done first.

Oyster shells, corals etc. are used to maintain the pH at the desired level for koi-keeping. So, add baking soda immediately and get the pH to stabilize first. I think your filter would be too small to put in 10kg of oyster shells, isn't it?

All the best!

Rgds
Johnson


 
 
 



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