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High Ammonia and White Foam

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liangw
Koi Lover

Nov 16, 2001, 6:34 AM

Post #1 of 30 (5125 views)
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High Ammonia and White Foam	Can't Post

Dear all,

I have just begin koi rearing in only one week. I've a 4ft x 3 ft x 2 ft fibre glass tank (with 11 fishes of 10-15 cm) with a 3 chamber filter box. The filter media are heavy brushes(1st), fiber green mat (2nd) and sintered glass and coral (3rd). I'm trying to build the bacteria colony in my filter box but I know that takes quite sometime. (I've put some bacteria power in the filter box).

I hope someone can help me for the following problem:

1. High Ammonia content in new water tank (~3mg/litre) from Tetra Test Kit which indicates defective breakdown of harmful substance. How can I eliminate or reduce the ammonia content ?

2. There are white bubble foam appearing at the side of the tank. Could it be the water is dirty and algae forming?

3. How long does the bacteria begin to form ?

Please advise. Thanks.

Willy

Mark
Koi Kichi

Nov 16, 2001, 8:43 AM

Post #2 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi Willy
Your filter system has not matured. It takes 6 to 7 weeks for it to fully colonized.

Bacteria powder that are sold off the shelves will not colonize your filter system. They will however, bind the ammonia but only a short time if ammonia continues to accumulate.

You can reduce the ammonia by changing 50% of the water in your tank and add 0.1% to 0.3% salt to prevent nitrites from killing your fish. Lastly feed your fish sparingly on alternate days.

White bubble foam appearing at the side of the tank is not a good sign. It's an indication that some of the fish have already fallen sick. As I suggested, change 50% water and add 0.3% salt.

Btw if you could borrow hobbyist's matured filter media and put them into your filter box will cut down the colonization period.

Good luck.

Loo_Ferringo
Koi Lover

Nov 18, 2001, 7:31 AM

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Hi Willy
I had the same condition as your a week ago
Thanks to Mark & Joshua help.Stop feeding your koi,changed 50% water.I went to Hausmann
Marketing Aquarium (next to Sungai Buloh
natural park),as Mark recommended the Power
bacta.Instead I was introduced to another
product called "Cycle" it is actually a bacteria booster for new filtering system.
It is in liquid form and cost S$12/-/bottle.
Follow the instruction,it really work.I have
been monitoring the ammonia and nitrite for
passed 8 days.Tremendous results,both ammonia
and nitrite measured at 0 ppm.Mark also
recommended to put air stones into the filter
chambers which I did too.I have feed my koi
as per normal for the last three days.I am
keeping my fingers cross that I am on the
right track.
Mark & Joshua this reply related to my topic
"nitrite high".As Joshua qouted,I am on the
way to breed "champion" [redface]Pls.don't pull my
leg Joshua!!I might be breeding "pot-belly"
champion. [biggrin]hee..hee.
Thanks & Cheer Smile

kenny

liangw
Koi Lover

Nov 20, 2001, 12:39 AM

Post #4 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi Mark and Kenny,

Thanks for your advices and help. I will certainly try out and observe the results.

Anyway, I believe are you guys encountering are real experience and it helps me to build up my knowledge on the water quality.

Will let you guys know the outcome.

Thanks again and happy koi keeping.

liangw
Koi Lover

Nov 21, 2001, 10:24 PM

Post #5 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi Kenny,

When I apply "Cycle" together with the "A-Z Beneficial Bacteria (Ocean Free)" into the 1st chamber of the filter box which consists of fiber green mat and fine green mat last night, this morning there are bubble forming in that chamber.

Do you face that problem ? Is it normal for during first few days of bacteria maturing ?

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Nov 22, 2001, 12:29 AM

Post #6 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi Willy

Hope things are better after you air dropped the AZ Bacteria and Cycle into the filter box. These are like the Special Forces, binding ammonia and so help the good bacteria who are the local fighters to kick start the bio-filter. You don't need the Special Forces once the local fighters are ready to fight on their own.

Perhaps it might be better to pour bio-starters into the last few chambers of your filter box rather than the first chamber, since the last few chambers (consisting of mats, sintered glass and corals) are your bio-filter where the good bugs stay. The first chamber is the mechanical filter trapping fish waste does not have much good bacteria and is washed regularly to prevent clogging.

No harm done also in adding a little salt into your pond to help the koi fight diseases and lessen the effects of nitrite poisoning. 0.3% salt concentration is made by adding 0.3 kg salt in every 100 litres of water in your tank (1 litre of water weighs 1 kg).

I am not pulling Kenny's leg. Anybody can grow champions as long as they keep good water and has a good eye for tategoi (koi potential winner). I am sure Dennis and Mark will agree.

Cheers

Smile

Josh

Mark
Koi Kichi

Nov 22, 2001, 2:51 AM

Post #7 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi liangw,
So long there is no "Bad Fish" smell its normal to see bubbles in a new filter system. Not to worry to much. Relax and enjoy the hobby.

liangw
Koi Lover

Nov 29, 2001, 12:52 AM

Post #8 of 30 (5123 views)
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Dear Kenny,

Despite trying after one week, the nitrite level is still quite high ~5mg/litre after water change. Mad

Is it I must take out some of fishes away till the nitrite level drop ? I suspect there something wrong with the fish but the fishes is swimming happily.......

Did you put Cycle everyday ?

Please help. Thanks

Willy

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Nov 29, 2001, 1:34 AM

Post #9 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi Willy

Your nitrite reading is too high for the comfort of your fishes. Nitrite poisoning causes the fins to redden and will also burn the gills. It will also cause gasping at the surface.

You should change at least 30% of your water daily and add salt to 0.3% to temporarily reduce the toxicity of the nitrite.

In the long term, a mature filtration system will almost always eliminate all the toxic nitrites from your pond.

Good luck!

Rgds
Johnson

Loo_Ferringo
Koi Lover

Nov 29, 2001, 2:18 AM

Post #10 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi willy
The first two weeks,I follow as per
instruction.I did transfer the old filter
media into the new filter system.This will
help to boost-up the "good guys".Do not feed
your koi for at least 4 days.Then measure
the water parameter.Well the nitrite had
caused two of my koi to have rotten fins.
I have been monitoring,it is on safe side.
Be patient,it is interesting to be a "fish
doctor" as long as we wish to keep healthy
koi.try to read up more infors.in this forum.
1001 topics to learnt.You're welcome to
contact me,I'm staying at Bukit Batok.
pager 94949956.I am still learning.I have
gathered countless helps from Joshua & Mark.
PATIENT is the keyword,in koi world.

Happy koi..ing
kenny

JT818
Koi Lover

Dec 4, 2001, 11:37 PM

Post #11 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi,

Does anyone know what is the fastest way to reduce nitrite or eliminate it that is harmless to koi? I checked my water parameter and it's good except for the ammonia and nitrite. I immediately changed 50% water and added salt to 0.3%. Somehow, the nitrite is still high.

ammonia - less than .2
nitrate - between 20 - 40
nitrite - 3.0!!!
ph - 7

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Dec 5, 2001, 12:41 AM

Post #12 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi JT818

Your water readings are quite worrisome! Thankfully your pH is near neutral as that in a way will reduce the toxicity of ammonia.

In an ideal situation, ammonia and nitrites should be 0. Nitrates below 50mg/l is still OK.

The fastest way to reduce ammonia and nitrites level is regular water change of up to 30% daily. (do not forget to de-chlor!)

Adding salt of up to 0.3% salinity will help reduce nitrite poisoning in your system. You can also add rechargeable zeolite into your filter system to help absorb the toxic ammonia/nitrites temporarily.

How are your fishes doing? Any signs of stress? Laying at the bottom, clamped fins? These are signs of ammonia poisoning. Any ulcers, infections etc? Are they gasping for air on the surface? Any red streaks on their fins? Possible signs of nitrite poisoning.

Be patient, once your filter kicks in, your readings should start dropping to 0. In the meantime, pls refrain from feeding your kois. I know it is tempting to do so, but feeding only increases the excretion of ammo ia into the water. Koi can lasts without food for as long as 7 days!

Monitor the fishes' condition and change water daily and you should see the readings dropping.

Good luck!

Rgds
Johnson

TonyG
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2001, 3:30 AM

Post #13 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi

Nitrite will reduce only if the good bugs start building their home in your filter and make the nitrite as their meal. (Applies to Ammonia too). There is no 'overnight' solution to it but you can facilitates the process by adding bottled 'bacteria' in your filter or borrow some filter media from matured pond. For the bugs to colonize and matured in your filter, it takes from 3 to 12 weeks. Changing water will only helps a little but too much of it will slow down the process of colonization. Your reading is definitely no good. So add salt, STOP feeding and change 20% of water every two days. Feeding will only increase your NO2 and NH4 level. And check the parameters everyday.

Tony

liangw
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2001, 10:53 PM

Post #14 of 30 (5123 views)
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Dear all,

After the constant water changing, the nitrite has dropped to 0.3 ppm and the ammonia level has rediced to 0.

But yesterday, I have fed my koi with only a few pellet of food and during evening time, I found that with just a short while, the nitrite level has increased to 0.6 ppm and ammonia level has gone to 0.25 mg/l.

Why is the water respond so great to such a minor feeding ?

Should I continue feeding my koi or wait till the nitrite and ammonia has dropped till zero?

TonyG
Koi Lover

Dec 5, 2001, 11:15 PM

Post #15 of 30 (5123 views)
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Stop feeding yours kois for 3 to 4 days and monitor the outcome.

Tony

JT818
Koi Lover

Dec 6, 2001, 2:37 AM

Post #16 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi,

How long will small koi ( 4 - 6.5 in) survive in water with:

ammonia - 0
nitrate - less than 10
nitrite - about 1.0
ph - 7

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Dec 6, 2001, 4:17 AM

Post #17 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi Willy

Pls stop feeding your kois as advised by both Tony and myself for the next few days.

It was mentioned to you specifically to stop feeding, otherwise you are not going to see the ammonia and nitrites decreasing.

Let your filter settle down first before you put it to overtime mode to cope with the excessive ammonia!

Monitor your water readings for the next few days and once the level has dropped to 0, you can then feed just a little to keep them from starving. But for your info, koi can withstand not eating for up to 7 days without any significant effect! Smile

So all the best.

Rgds
Johnson

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Dec 6, 2001, 4:21 AM

Post #18 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi JT818

The nitrite reading of 1.0 is rather worrisome! The rest are OK.

You should do a water change of 30% daily to dilute the nitrites. Add salt to 0.3% salinity to reduce nitrite poisoning temporarily.

Your small kois are more susceptible to bad water so pls monitor your kois' condition carefully.

How old is your filtration system? Any signs of stress or red streaked fins?

Rgds
Johnson

JT818
Koi Lover

Dec 6, 2001, 9:51 PM

Post #19 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi jtklee,

Thanks for the advise. I did a 50% water change yesterday and the day before and added salt to 0.3%. I noticed the water started to having bubbles forming and the koi were acting strangely lying on the bottom and fins clapped.
I believe the main cause for this was because I added in a new filter media to my 3 months old filter system. Before, everything went fine. After several water changes and replaced the new filter media with the old one, the water parameter went back to normal, except that there are some nitrite left (between .5 to 1.0). However the koi are more relief...swimming happily now. So that's a good sign.

TonyG
Koi Lover

Dec 6, 2001, 10:42 PM

Post #20 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hello JT818

Continue to monitor your water daily and remember to starve your koi. It looks like your filter has started to work. Once the water back to normal, start feeding a liitle and pick it up from there. Please keep posting your result to this forum.

Thanks

Tony

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Dec 8, 2001, 6:51 AM

Post #21 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi JT818

All the best to you! Smile

Hope your filter starts to settle down soon and your worries of ammonia and nitrites will soon be under control.

Rgds
Johnson Smile

liangw
Koi Lover

Dec 20, 2001, 3:22 AM

Post #22 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi all,

The tank ammonia and nitrite level has managed to reduce to 0 and 0.1 respectively.

Maybe, it's a sign that the filter getting mature and I have started to feed my koi once a day.

Is it that the water will turned green after that ?

Cheers

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Dec 20, 2001, 11:36 PM

Post #23 of 30 (5123 views)
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High Ammonia and White Foam [In reply to]	Can't Post

Walawei, Liang, your filter has come of age! Congrats. This spells doom for Ammonia and Nitrites, arch enemies of koi. The Nitro boys have arrived (Nitrosomas and Nitrobacter) and these Special Forces Water Seals will terminate the terrorists before they have a chance to disturb the peace in your world of koi.

Hope the greens don't come, but if they do, there are many who swear a trickle filter system will eliminate nitrates which is food for green algae. The theory is that a trickle filter has special bacteria that will convert nitrites into gas directly without producing nitrates, thus starving the green algae to death.

Best regards

[biggrin]

Josh

Loo_Ferringo
Koi Lover

Dec 21, 2001, 2:56 AM

Post #24 of 30 (5123 views)
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Hi Joshua
Is me "koi rebel".At last I managed to
upgrate to 122cm x 122cm x 30.5cm FG tank.
Water parameter under controlled.Wow,all
the 9 koi are running "MAD"around making
knocking sound against the wall.Stop feeding them for two days.slowiy start feeding to bring them back to normal.Sign of
improvement,koi swim forward to gulp food.
But,hide inthe corner after being fed.Now I
realised they look more beauty in bigger tank.My current power head is low capacity.
I intend to purchase a 3000 litre/hr power
head.It is a right choice?By the way price
is S$80.Is the price right?As for the filter
I used the 45 litres drum barrel.

kenny

Joshua Lee
Koi Lover

Dec 22, 2001, 12:36 AM

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Hi Kenny

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you. Congrats on getting a bigger home for your koi. I am sure the beauties will love it but I guess it takes a while for them to get used to the new environment.

Your new tank works out to be about 100 gallons or 454 litres so if you get a pump that pumps 3000 litres/hr that would circulate the water 6 times in a hour (compared to the recommended circulation of 2 times an hour). You can probably save some money by buying a slightly smaller pump.

Cheers

Best regards
Smile

Josh

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