Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality: How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ???

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How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ???

Thorin
Koi Lover

May 7, 2002, 6:31 AM

Post #1 of 14 (2000 views)
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How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ???	Can't Post

Hi All,

I have been reading a few posts in this forum and in some it mentions keeping the pond at 0.1% salt. And use Oyster or Cockle shells to stablize the PH.

My pond is approx 1600 Gallons(uk) So What are the recommended amounts for my pond?

When I go to feed my fish in a morning they are all huddled around my pump and they don't come up for food, and they seem to stay there most of the day. So now I don't feed them until 7:30pm - 8:00pm I noticed odd occasions they will flick their sides on the bottom of the pond but not all the time Crazy

All my fish tend to do it, probably 2-3 times.

I'm due for a water test wednesday, but I thought I'd ask you guys as at sometime or another you may have had this happen. My pond is just over a week old, since installing a new biofilter. I plan on making the filtered water flow into a trough filled with various water plants before making it flow back into the pond to help further down the line when the nitrates appear (after 21 days is it?)

I would appreciate knowing how much salt/oyster shells/baking soda to use Wink

BTW Does it have to be Oyster or Cockle Shells? Because I can get LOADS of other shells from the beach when I visit my wife's parents Smile

(I'll boil them in salty water before using them, If they can be used)

Thanks

Mike.
Location: England, Derbyshire.

newgen
Koi Lover

May 7, 2002, 11:34 AM

Post #2 of 14 (1989 views)
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Re: [Thorin] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Thorin! Morning!

About the salt level, you can put 0.1% of salt and maintain the salt level through out the year, salt is very good to fish with that amount~! Cool

And, if you found the fish is acting wierd, or some sign of sickness, raise your salt level to 0.3%(maybe 0.5%, as this won't harm your plants) but you cannot keep this salt level(0.3% or higher) through out the year, but for only 1 month as i know this from all the seniors here! Wink

A NEW pond normaly the pH will be high, because of the "Lime" of the pond(concrete) so you don't have to add those shells in yet, as they acts as a pH buffer(make pH higher) remember to keep track on your pH level Cool

Is it your kois, totally don't EAT? Better check your water parameters. Or are your kois acting wierd? like "floating in the air", like cannot control the balance? is your water pump too strong? Try to check them! better do it as soon as posible! try to raise your salt level to 0.3% and keep it there for few weeks.

If you kois don't want to eat but thy are healthy(no sign of sickness), try not to feed them for 2 days. After 2 days, try to stand or sit beside your pond and feeed your kois, and make sure you're visible to them! Maybe they are not used to the environment yet, or they are not used to you?(are they new kois?) try this! it works!

Hope I did help you! Cheers, and don't worry to much!

Regards,

John

newgen
Koi Lover

May 7, 2002, 10:14 PM

Post #3 of 14 (1971 views)
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Re: [newgen] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Oh ya! Sorry to ask!

erm...any other comments? or am i wrong?

Please do correct me if i'm wrong!
Thanks seniors! Cool

John

Thorin
Koi Lover

May 8, 2002, 1:53 AM

Post #4 of 14 (1956 views)
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Re: [newgen] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for your reply John Wink

I had my water checked today and Amonia = 0, Nitrate = 0, and Ph = 8

My pond and fish are new btw. I also checked my pond temp and it's 12C today it was 9.5C a few days ago.

I'm really pleased with my param's apart from the ph, but as you said it will be higher being a new pond (liner) I think like you said they are really shy. When I bought them they came upto me in the vats, that is why I had chosen them. Now they dart away from me. They do feed but only around 8pm. I try to stay as long as I can with them before I get too cold Laugh

I can stand about 4' from the ponds edge while they feed. I'll try 3' away next week so they can get used to me. Even my GinRin Chagoi is scared Crazy

I thought they were more outgoing? I put it down to being new though (I hope Wink

) and stress of moving in with the others.

Thanks again. How much salt do I need to add to 1600Gal (UK)?

Mike.
Location: England, Derbyshire.

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 8, 2002, 2:18 AM

Post #5 of 14 (1954 views)
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Re: [Thorin] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mike,

I have some bad news for you Frown

.

Your water params are excellent at the moment, but s it is a new pond, you will nee to check the params almost every day for the first month. The PH of your water is Excellent. The ideal is bwtween 7 and 8.5. However once you have kept a pond for a while you will get to know what PH level suits your pond best. I personally like to have my PH at 8. Others like it in the 7.5 area.

The Liner will not effect the PH too much, as long as you filled the pond and then drained it when you first set it up. Most linners have a water soluable solution sprayed on them at time of manufactor so its a good idea to rinse this off by filling the pond and then emptying it again (twice is reccomended).

PH rises in new ponds are usually effected by the lime in Concrete as John mentioned above. However with a Liner pond you will not see that much of an increse.

Once the koi get settle, may take about a week. They will start to get more brave. I started in the same place as you Mike, my kois would not even come up to feed until I was out of site. Now I have them following me around the pond when ever I walk past and when its feeding time they know that I will hand feed for the first 5 mins, so they are almost jumping out of the water at me when I put my hands near the surface.

It takes time to tame koi, the bigger they get the braver they get. You will find one of them becomes the leader (usually the Chagoi). It you want more advice about taming you koi let me know and I will knock up a small article about it.

Stuart

Thorin
Koi Lover

May 8, 2002, 2:43 AM

Post #6 of 14 (1953 views)
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Re: [SMW1] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Stuart,

Hmmm, burst my bubble Laugh

I'll have to wait until the weekend to test my water again, at a different place, otherwise they'll get sick of me keep bringing water in to test Sly

Until I can buy my own tester kits.

When I first set up the pond a year ago it stood dormant full of water for about a year then when I bought a new filter I emptied it and refilled, and treated the water. So I hope that residue is gone now.

I would like some info on taming them if you have the time Wink

I'll let you know my water param's at the w/end.

Mike.
Location: England, Derbyshire.

newgen
Koi Lover

May 8, 2002, 9:13 AM

Post #7 of 14 (1944 views)
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Re: [SMW1] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Stuart!

Glad you call me John! Thanks!

OK Stuart! I'll start a small topic for you, "KOI TAMING", OK? Cool

As I, too want to know more about taming the kois. You know, I'm a Junior here, youngest, and i'm very willing to learn~ Tongue

Hope you can post up some idea!

Thanks!
Regards,

John

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 8, 2002, 2:15 PM

Post #8 of 14 (1932 views)
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Re: [Thorin] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mike / John,

Mike, the residue will be gone now that you have had the liner for over a year.

Test Kits: You can buy these from your koi dealer. I would reccomend starting with the TetraPond test kit which is about �18. With this you get 4 test tubes (10 ml), Instructions and colour chart, and 20 tests each of PH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, these tests all come in tablet form in this kit. However if you feel like spoiling yourself you should get the next set up which comes in a nice carrying case. this includes all the above plus DO (Disolved Oxygen) and KH (Carbonate). these tests all come in liquid form (more accurate I feel):

Ok Guys as for Taming, I'll knock up an article in the next few days and post it on the Koi appreciation section, hopefully this will be open to comments by other members of the forum, so we can get the methods they used for taming.

Stuart

newgen
Koi Lover

May 8, 2002, 5:39 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1927 views)
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Re: [SMW1] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi stuart!

How much this the test pack? as shown above the(the picture)

Really hope to get one!

John

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 8, 2002, 11:23 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1916 views)
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Re: [newgen] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi John, in the UK they are �27.99. Not sure about the price in Malaysia.

newgen
Koi Lover

May 9, 2002, 10:24 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1901 views)
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Re: [SMW1] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Anyone knows how to calculate the amount of salt we need to use to make a concentration 0.1 or 0.3%?

I hope to know the formula!
Thanks!

Reagrds,
John

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 9, 2002, 11:37 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1896 views)
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Re: [newgen] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi John / Mike,

Ok, it's faily simple given that 1 litre of water weighs 1kg. So work out how many litres you need to treat (including filter):

Pond(Width * Length * Depth) + Filters(Width * Length * Depth x Number of Filters) = Litres

To get a 0.1% resolution you need to divide by 1000.

Litres / 1000 = KG of Salt required.

So if you want a 0.3% salt resolution you need to times the above by 3. So the final equation for 0.3% would look like this:

Pond(Width * Length * Depth) + Filters(Width * Length * Depth x No of Filters) / 1000 * 3 = KG of Salt required

P.S. As requested I have posted on your thread "Tamming Koi". Let me know what you think ?

Thorin
Koi Lover

May 11, 2002, 1:52 AM

Post #13 of 14 (1879 views)
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Re: [SMW1] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks again Stuart, I found your post on taming V. interesting.

I had my water tested again today Wink

Amonia = 0

Nitrate = up slightly (This is all I was told)

Ph = 8.2 up by .2 on last times reading.

I have concrete slabs around my pond and I was told they might be upping the ph. I'll get it tested again on monday. I hope to be able to buy my own test kit next week too.

Mike.
Location: England, Derbyshire.

SMW1
Koi Kichi

May 11, 2002, 2:31 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1877 views)
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Re: [Thorin] How much, Salt/Oyster Shells/Baking Soda ??? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Mike,

Yes untreated concrete will up the PH. How ever bricks will not as they are made of clay and not concrete.

If the nitrate is up slightly , but the ammonia ans nitrite are still 0. This is a good sign that your filter is working. Ammonia = Nitrite = Nitrate.

Stuart

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