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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
Leucocytes Reading

 





 


Gouri
Koi Lover


Oct 28, 2006, 8:54 AM

Post #1 of 12 (2201 views)
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Leucocytes Reading Can't Post
Dear All

I tested my pond water and unusually found that there was a reading for leucocytes of 125++.

Can anyone let me know what this might mean? Should I be worried? Unsure

If yes, what can I do to reduce the numbers?

Thx

Gouri


alex-san
Koi Lover


Oct 29, 2006, 5:07 AM

Post #2 of 12 (2184 views)
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Re: [Gouri] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Gouri

By Leucocytes do you mean white blood cells? I have never heard of anyone testing for these before. How and why are you testing for Leucocytes? Microscope?

From my limited knowledge Leucocytes are 4 different types of cells. Most people know them as part of the immune system that engulfs invading bacteria or viruses and can form granolas. Fish mucus contains lots of these cells to protect them from infection.

I wouldn't worry unless your koi seem to be acting differently or the levels of leucocytes have dramatically increased. White blood cells could be shed from areas of bacterial infection like an ulcer, or internally from urine and gills but they would be very dilute in the pond. You could try to lower bacterial levels to see if this makes a difference. Without knowing what a healthy leucocyte level is it's hard to tell.

www.koi-carp.blogspot.com


Gouri
Koi Lover


Oct 29, 2006, 8:26 AM

Post #3 of 12 (2177 views)
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Re: [alex-san] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Alex-san

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I mean white blood cells. I think it makes sense coz one of my koi has an ulcer developing. But the reading is normally 0, hmmm!!

There are also a couple of goldfish with a bump almost like a pimple on their sides which might be contributing to the levels. I'm not sure what the cause of this is - I may need to post some pics. But from the description could anyone hazzard a guess?

And on some of the goldfish where there used to be red scales there is now white, as if a scale is missing or they've had a knock? This is typically on their heads. Anyone know what this could be?

BTW, how would I lower bacterial levels?

Thx again

Gouri


(This post was edited by Gouri on Oct 29, 2006, 8:39 AM)


alex-san
Koi Lover


Oct 29, 2006, 7:39 PM

Post #4 of 12 (2165 views)
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Re: [Gouri] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Gouri

There's definitely something stressing them by the sounds of it, and an ulcer is bacterial but it may be a secondary infection. If all the fish are continually flicking and jumpy, and the ammonia and nitrite levels are 0, then I would suggest it's parasites causing the problems.

An ulcer problem needs to be dealt with, ideally quarantining the koi in question.

Assuming it's a bacterial problem the best way to lower levels would be to thoroughly clean out the pond and filter, and as mentioned before do a series of large water changes. There are a number of products available to out compete bad bacteria on the market, Genesyz being especially good when ulcers are present. Virkon S and Virasure for Koi are 2 recommended disinfectant type products that in low doses won't hurt your filter. They shouldn't be considered cures, more preventatives like UV sterilizers or ozone.

Perhaps the best treatments are Salt or Potassium Permanganate, although the latter will knock back you filter.

Hope this helps


Gouri
Koi Lover


Oct 30, 2006, 10:16 AM

Post #5 of 12 (2144 views)
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Re: [alex-san] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Alex-San

All of the fish are not jumpy or flicking - it was just that one time when I approached the pond quickly when one started to jump. I have observed them and they are not acting peculiarly in any way even the one that was jumping.

In terms of products to fight against bacteria, I dosed the pond with Acriflavine - is this a product that you would recommend as well? To be honest, I'd never heard of the others you mentioned.

I just caught the koi with the ulcer along with a couple of other fish and they are now in quarantine. I shall be gradually raising the temperature to about 27 degrees C and I'll be using Bacterad to fight the ulcer along with Acriflavine to get rid of opportunistic bacteria and salting to 0.3%. This method has worked for me in the past although I've never had to raise the temperature but coz it's so cold these days.......

I would very much appreciate your thoughts.Smile

Thx
Gouri


alex-san
Koi Lover


Oct 30, 2006, 7:05 PM

Post #6 of 12 (2133 views)
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Re: [Gouri] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Gouri

There's nothing really I can add and I cannot fault your course of treatment. As it's worked for you before it's best to stick with what you know. Often with ulcers all they need to heal is a bit of heat and very clean water.

Acriflavine and salt are good all round treatments. I've never used Bacterad, I guess you apply this directly to the ulcer as you don't want to mix too many treatments in the water.

It's worth taking a scrape just to make sure of any nasties lurking.

All the best

Alex


Gouri
Koi Lover


Oct 30, 2006, 9:10 PM

Post #7 of 12 (2124 views)
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Re: [alex-san] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Alex

Thanks for the vote of confidence!!

In terms of scrapes, I've never done this before and I wouldn't know what to look for even if I did do one!!!Unsure

I'm sure there's something on your blog........??

Thx

Gouri


Gouri
Koi Lover


Nov 1, 2006, 2:41 AM

Post #8 of 12 (2089 views)
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Re: [Gouri] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Plus why should feeding be limited during quarantine periods?

Thx


alex-san
Koi Lover


Nov 2, 2006, 8:18 AM

Post #9 of 12 (2068 views)
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Re: [Gouri] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
In Reply To
Plus why should feeding be limited during quarantine periods?

Thx
Over feeding should be avoided at all times but especially when koi are being quarantined. The last thing you want is problems with water quality further stressing the koi. It may be suggested to limit feeding at this time because many people use small temporary tanks and filters that are rushed into action. Also medications will reduce oxygen levels and filter activity, causing a knock on effect.

The reason I mentioned doing a scrape was if you happened to have a microscope. I haven't written about this in my blog as there are several good articles on the subject, but I may have a go. If you want to know what to look for, Koiquest is a good site, and there are even movies http://www.koiquest.co.uk/movies.htm



www.koi-carp.blogspot.com


Gouri
Koi Lover


Nov 2, 2006, 9:14 AM

Post #10 of 12 (2063 views)
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Re: [alex-san] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Alex

Thanks for the info Wink

And, if you do do a blog about it i'm sure it will be well worth a read!! Smile

Thx!!


Gouri
Koi Lover


Nov 30, 2006, 12:48 AM

Post #11 of 12 (1966 views)
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Re: [Gouri] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Ok, so my fish are starting their 4th week in quarantine.

Unfortunately, I've notice 1 other fish in the pond that has developed an ulcer.

Should I,

1. Wait until those fish in quarantine have finished their 4 weeks, release them back into the pond, then quarantine the newly sick fish.

2. Put the newly sick fish into the quarantine now, which will extend all of the fishes quarantine by another 4 weeks.

The other thing is that the QT is heated to 27 degrees C, whereas the pond is not (I guess about 10 degrees C or less).

Your advice is most welcomed!!

Thank you

Gouri


Gouri
Koi Lover


Dec 1, 2006, 10:26 PM

Post #12 of 12 (1945 views)
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Re: [Gouri] Leucocytes Reading [In reply to] Can't Post
Well, I've decided to go for option 1.

Now I am wondering how long I should take to bring the QT temperature down for the koi to acclimatise to the pond temperature?

I was just thinking of turning off the heater and letting the water cool down so should take several hours - or should I go even slower than this?

Thanks for your advice!

Gouri

 
 
 



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