Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality: NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND

Home


	MAIN INDEX	SEARCH POSTS	WHO'S ONLINE	LOG IN

Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT

Amaze Koi
Koi Lover

Jul 19, 2007, 6:25 AM

Post #1 of 14 (1955 views)
Shortcut

NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT	Can't Post

Hi all,
I'm in Portland OREGON, USA and just setup a NEW 2000gal liner pond. I using NitraMax 4,000 pressured bead filter and it has run ~4 weeks so far. I current have 8 koi (average 1 feet). All koi are swimming and eager for food. Some starts get down to the bottom. One of them recently got some red scales! I AM WORRY NOW :( I bought and used some bio boosters for benificial bacteria -> Process too slow.

I check water every day! Here is my last night measurements:
* Ammonia: consistently increasing from 1PPM to 2PPM!
* Nitrite: always zero
* Nitrate: zero
* PH: first 2weeks was 7.5 and this week is ~6.5.

I recently add pond-salt in to protect fishes. Ammonia getting worst and becomes dangeous. PH getting lower and lower. I have changed 25% water twice and no better results. I used Amquel when changing water. I am buying Microbelift Super Start Bead Filter online and it is in shipping now. Hope Super Start will boost the process faster.

QUESTIONS, WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT:
1) Continue changing 25% water? Add more Super Start Bead Filter when I recieve?
2) Just add more Super Start Bead Filter?
3) Leave it alone?
4) Water turns green. Should I turns on UV light? It is off now.
5) Least but not last - What else?

Note: I can't take the fishes out (don't know where to put them!).
Amaze_Koi,
It's all about our hobby!
It's all about our hobby :)

Amaze Koi
Koi Lover

Jul 19, 2007, 1:38 PM

Post #2 of 14 (1942 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Please help! One fish is on his side now Frown

I don't want to say good bye to him... huhuhuhu Mad

I am changing 1/3 water now and adding in 16oz of Amquel. I just bought a 10lbs bag of cozal sand and thinking pour into the bottom of the pond. Should I?

Thanks so much for any advice,
Amaze Koi
It's all about our hobby :)

(This post was edited by Amaze Koi on Jul 19, 2007, 1:49 PM)

ayranjim
Koi Lover

Jul 19, 2007, 2:26 PM

Post #3 of 14 (1931 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello, I am not familiar with your filter system, but a bio filtration system takes up to 8 weeks before it starts working, so what I would do is not feed the koi evry day, a little evry few days, this will help the water situation. also your pump and filter must run 24/7 , without this running, you will never have a bio filter!Your koi can live without food for several days no problem! Also there are 2 types of filtration that is needed, mechanical, which filters things like leaves and such, and bio, which filters ( or cleans) the water of the koi crap! Take things slow!! do not add all those products to your pond, remember you are trying to duplicate what mother nature does for lakes.

koiguyoz
Member

Jul 19, 2007, 5:17 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1924 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

1) Continue changing 25% water?
Changing the water will certainly dilute the level of ammonia.

2) Just add more Super Start Bead Filter?
Adding more Super Start Bead Filter media will help to increase the surface area for the nitrobacters so definitely add more in the time to come.

If you are referring to the microbelift liquid, add this as well to keep the level of nitrobacter up until the levels of ammonia reduce themselves to 0ppm.

3) Leave it alone?
Ayranjim has observed your impatience with the pond. I am in agreement with him. The nitrobacter inside your filter takes time to grow and colonise the pond and the biomedia inside your pressurised filter. This may take anywhere from 4-12 weeks if you have sufficient surface area on your biomedia.

4) Water turns green. Should I turns on UV light? It is off now.
Do not try and find an algaecide to being killing the green water as this will increase your ammonia and nitrite levels even higher as you're effectively killing a type of life. Decomposition of living matter will result in an increase in nitrite and ammonia.

Leave the UV light off. The bacteria needed to colonise your filter's media will be killed if exposed to the UV light. This is especially true when your UV light is placed before the pressurised filter in the filtration system. You can consider turning the UV light on if it was plumbed after the pressurised filter.

5) Least but not last - What else?
Increase the level of dissolved oxygen in the pond with the use of a high volume air pump, say anywhere in the range of 60-100 litres per MINUTE (not hours). The more the better. You need this air pump to deliver air through airlines into a air diffuser to increase the level of oxygen in the water which will be reduced by the effects of the algal bloom that at night will produce carbon dioxide and effectively make it harder for your koi to breath.

Get yourself sodium bicarbonate (also known as baking soda in some places - but make sure it is composed only of sodium bicarbonate) to boost your PH level above 6.5. One tablespoon every half to one hour will be required to slowly increased your PH above 7.0. When you have reached above 7.0 continue monitoring the PH. The PH will drop because of the actions of the nitrobacter that require carbonates to grow themselves and process ammonia and nitrite. You will continue to use the sodium bicarbonate along with cleaned oyster shells (as a source of carbonates) in the long term often for the life of the pond.

If you allow PH to drop below 6.5 you're koi wil experience lethargy and rest at the bottom of the pond without much movement. If left too long, they will eventually die.

It's all about PATIENCE!
It's all about PATIENCE!

...sorry but ponds can't come together overnight.

Regards,
Koiguyoz

Amaze Koi
Koi Lover

Jul 20, 2007, 12:23 AM

Post #5 of 14 (1916 views)
Shortcut

Re: [koiguyoz] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

First of all, thanks for the people creating this forum so we can disccuss and learn. I would like to appreciate all of your advices. Thanks so much.

Status 7/19:

New measurements: PH=6, Ammonia=1ppm, Nitrite=0ppm
After chang 1/3 water last night -> look clearer -> this morning turns green again. Look like not enough oxygen at night. Stupid algal growed at night
8 Fishes: One has red scales ~1in sq. Other fish is still on his side (at bottom). Another one looks lethargic. The rest swim around, look ok, and want to eat. I will take your advices and limit feeding them to minimal.
Filter system: bottom drain -> valve -> pre-filter basket -> pump -> filter -> UV light -> falls to pond. Pump runs 24/7. My NitraMax 4,000 filter: http://www.azponds.com/nitramax_filter.htm
I will continue to change 20% of water twice per week.
I will be petient (at least try to!!!). I will try to give the update once awhile so everyone can learn and share experience too. Again appreciate your time typing the advices.

QUESTIONS:

Should I put 10lbs of Coral Sand in the pond? Someone says it is good for the pond. Will it help in my sistuation?
I will have BBQ this weekend. Can I use oyster shell after cooked (on fire)? Or I should not burn the shell.
I have UV after filter. Koiguyoz metioned it could be ok.... so I will turn on few days per week. Should be no problem right? Just want to confirm. I don't want to tracing my tail
My pond is 2000gal. Waterfall is 4ft high and 1.5ft wide . External Pump is at 3000gal/hour. Is this enough for oxygen or should I consider your suggestion of adding more oxygen?
AT THIS STAGE, is the flow rate 3000gal/hour for my 2000gal pond acceptable? I have a valve before the pump so I can adjust the flow rate Someone mentioned "do not turn flow soo high because water needs to be present long enough in filter for baterial grow!"

Thanks,
Amaze Koi.
It's all about our hobby :)

(This post was edited by Amaze Koi on Jul 20, 2007, 12:28 AM)

koiguyoz
Member

Jul 20, 2007, 11:07 AM

Post #6 of 14 (1901 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

As I also like to hear other people's opinions on the other questions I will answer question 2 at this stage.

I will have BBQ this weekend. Can I use oyster shell after cooked (on fire)? Or I should not burn the shell.

Do not cook the shells. They are best used raw, cleaned of any oils or other bits that are stuck to them.

The cooking may leave traces of carbon ash that won't benefit your koi or filter.

larz1
Koi Kichi

Jul 20, 2007, 8:03 PM

Post #7 of 14 (1894 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Coral Sand or Oyster shell would definitely be a benefit, but your ph is so low now you need something faster. If you don't have a kh test kit, get one. Your filter is starving for carbonates, which explains why your ph has dropped from 7.5 to 6.0 in a relatively short period. Your fish are suffering from acidosis, especially the one laying on the bottom. Add 1 lb of Baking soda in the morning, another in the evening, and do this daily until your ph is at least up to 7.5 again.
When you get your kh test kit, you want to see reading of 6-9 drops (100-160ppm). Right now I doubt you read any, which is bad for your fish and your filter bacteria.
Here is a good calculator to use for calculating doses of Baking Soda to maintain safe kh levels;
http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calckh.asp

larz1
Koi Kichi

Jul 20, 2007, 8:48 PM

Post #8 of 14 (1891 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

You mentioned that you are in Portland. There is an excellent Koi Club in your area that I'm CERTAIN has a member or two that could help you "eyes on". You can contact them through their website at;
http://www.nwkg.org/
Larry Christensen is the Club President.

ayranjim
Koi Lover

Jul 21, 2007, 1:52 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1877 views)
Shortcut

Re: [larz1] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello, and RIGHT ON!! although adding this and that in this and that amounts may possible confuse some people, so I think it might be best to give advise in an easy way to understand, or in other words Take things slow! This ( art ) or hobby is a learning process! And unfortunatly, people learn by mistakes!
Read all you can, !!

Amaze Koi
Koi Lover

Jul 22, 2007, 3:01 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1850 views)
Shortcut

Re: [ayranjim] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks again for all advices:

Update 7/22:

Added Microbelite Super Start Bead Filter. Imagine product! 1 day later, I just noticed some greens on the waterfall.
Added 10lb coral sand and 2 Oyster shels. Also adding baking soda.
Turned on UV light.
PH=6.5, KH=0, GH=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=0, Ammonia=1.
Water still green... but start look clearer.
Fishes: no more on side. Oh yes! But fishes are not too active.

I will provide more update later.
It's all about our hobby :)

(This post was edited by Amaze Koi on Jul 22, 2007, 3:04 PM)

larz1
Koi Kichi

Jul 22, 2007, 8:32 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1842 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Things are at least beginning to move toward the right direction.
Keep adding he B.S. in the prescribed doses and stay on top of your water changes and testing.
It would also be good to test your fresh water supply for ph and kh. Let it sit for a few hrs before testing as the ph will change after it rests.
I just noticed that you posted you have a valve "before" your pump to control flow rates. It is never a good idea to reduce flow on the pump intake. It can cause cavitation in the pump and damage it. I would not want to reduce your flow anyway as a 3,000 gph pump lifting water several feet is likely only moving 2,000gph anyway.

moonlee
New User

Jul 22, 2007, 11:47 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1831 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Amze Koi,

as i know red scales is due to desease which cause by poor water quality. you need to check your filter system flow and check does the water in the 3rd chamber is clean and crystal clear. Adding more bio ball will not improve much and at this moment, you shud feed less to the koi until they are active again.

Amaze Koi
Koi Lover

Jul 24, 2007, 12:46 AM

Post #13 of 14 (1801 views)
Shortcut

Re: [moonlee] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

Update 7/23:

Just check this morning. PH = 8 now! I stop adding baking soda.
KH=0, GH (general harness)=0, Ammonia=1.5, Nitrite=Nitrate=0.
Fish = start to swim . I love you guys The red scales fish is little improved (area gets smaller) but it has white spot on the red scale area. Is that fungus?
Water clear level is same as 7/22
UV light still on.

Question:

What is the best way to increase the KH in my sistuation?
Why Ammonia is always the same? I read an article that said the ammonia will rise up until its peak and it will drop down as the nitrite rises up. Is that what happening to me?
I just installed a stronger pump. This pump datasheet allows to adjust the water flow by the valve without any damage to the pump, yes!!! My flow rate now is 3000gal/hour (measured). Is it too fast or too slow in my case?

I have learned so much from you guys. Thanks all.
It's all about our hobby :)

Amaze Koi
Koi Lover

Jul 25, 2007, 2:26 AM

Post #14 of 14 (1775 views)
Shortcut

Re: [Amaze Koi] NEED ADVICES FOR NEW POND - URGENT [In reply to]	Can't Post

New reading 7/24:

Tap water:

PH =7.5
Ammonia=Nitrite=Nitrate = 0
KH=0
GH=30ppm

Pond:

FISH: still very lazy - not active as they were when introduced to pond :(
Water clear = same
PH=8
Ammonia = 1.5 (closed to 2)
Nitrite=Nitrate=0
KH=80ppm
GH=30ppm
Just added in Microlift Bead filter Super Start (for bacteria)

Please advices if you think of any.
It's all about our hobby :)

Search for (options)

Back to Koi.com.my Main Page

Disclaimer Privacy Statement
Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.
No part of the forum postings can be copied without prior permission from Hileytech Sdn Bhd and the Author of the Posting.
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at koi@hileytech.com