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Nirite and Flashing problem

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colin00
Koi Lover

Jul 9, 2002, 5:39 AM

Post #26 of 35 (11984 views)
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Re: [SMW1] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for the offer, it would have been nice to have them well looked after until the pond was ready, but I'll just have to do my best for them in the less than perfect circumstances and make their temp home as good as I can.

Some good news and some bad tonight. Firstly, all fish seem well. They all seemed hungry too, but they only got a tiny bit of food. Amonia is back down to practically nothing. Somewhere between 0 and 0.25, but much closer to the 0 mark. However Nitrite has risen to 0.7. A further water change was done and I'll check again tomorrow. Hopefully the filter will cope over the next day or two.

Cheers, Col.

Cheers, Colin.

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Jul 9, 2002, 11:02 AM

Post #27 of 35 (11983 views)
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Re: [colin00] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Colin

Good to know that your pond will be completed soon! Yeah, Stuart is right, try not to over stock your FG tank because it will overload your filter capability.

From what I see, your filter is not fully matured yet. You are close to 0 ammonia which means the nitrobacter is present to break down the ammonia but nitrospira has yet to settle down and that is why you have high nitrite reading! This is where the less fish in the tank the better! You have done the right thing by changing water. Continue to change 20% or so water to further dilute the nitrites. You might also want to add 0.3% salt salinity to help absorb some of the nitrites! Monitor the fishes and ensure that they are not flashing or rubbing against the bottom.

Test water every 2-3 days and hopefully it will start to drop!

Rgds

Johnson

koifun
Koi Kichi

Jul 11, 2002, 10:43 PM

Post #28 of 35 (11970 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, Johnson,

Would u kindly educate me a bit on some terminologies in koi matter as I am rather new in koi keeping. Recently I encountered some nitrite problem in my pond and see many of our friends here mentioned about flashing problem in koi and I am not sure my koi have the same problem until one of my Kohakus died this morning. It was rather restless the last two days - symptom 1 : it swam speedily across the pond like mad fish and sometimes jump up and landed hard on the side of the pond whenever the pond light is switched on suddenly or someone passing by, causing a bit of stress to other kois in the pond ; Symptom 2 : its eyes were bulging like gold fish and lastly refuse to eat or surface up the pond.

Does the above mentioned considered flashing ? I have tested the pond for ammonia - 0 , nitrite - 0.5 ppm and pH 7.0 . I have added charcoal and larva stones into my filter compartment today to try to reduce nitrite. Do u think it will work? I also intend to add another small capacity filter to the pond using those blue round barrel of about 5 gallons in the hope that it will solve my problem of nitrite level. I am particularly interested to know whether how good is charcoal as an absorbent for the ammonium and nitrite if u have experienced it b4. I do this to save cost as activated charcoal is rather expensive in the long run.

Many thank for reading and your time.

Regards

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Jul 12, 2002, 11:03 AM

Post #29 of 35 (11959 views)
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Re: [Koifun] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi koifun

I am so sorry to hear about the death of your kohaku! Frown

Since you are rather new to koi keeping and also new to this forum, I need to ask a few questions to establish some parameters for us to help you, if you don't mind. Smile

1. How long have you had your pond?

2. How big is your pond? L x W x D

3. How big is your filter? L x W x D

4. How many kois are in your pond?

5. What filter media do you use? Brushes? Japanese mats? Lava rocks? etc

The reason we need to know all these is to ensure that we are able to dispense (hopefully) more accurate advice.

Meanwhile, from your description of your fishes jumping and with bulging eyes etc, I can tell you that your fishes are not happy with the pond water! Frown

You have tested for ammonia which is 0 and nitrites 0.5ppm and pH 7. When did you do the test? Morning? Evening? You might want to do 2 tests, once in the morning and once in the evening for comparison. This will give an indication whether your pH is fluctuating or not.

Other than your kohaku, how many kois are showing the same symptoms of jumping? Flashing or flicking means your kois are rubbing themselves against the bottom or side of the pond. This means they are infected with parasites which are irritating them. The more often they flash, the more parasites are on their bodies. Any of your kois have raised scales like a pine cone? If so, together with the bulging eyes, it could be dropsy which is fatal to your kois. I am not scaring you but making you as informed as possible.

I suggest you do an immediate change of water, up to 30-40%. This will dilute some of the toxins in there. Quickly give us the measurement of your pond in order for us to work out the amount of salt required to begin the most basic medicating process. You need to have 0.3% salt salinity to really kill off these nasty bugs.

Charcoal is a good temporary measure for absorbing ammonia and/or nitrites but this is not a long term solution.

Can you do the change of water first (remember to dechlorinate) and get back to us on the rest of the info we need? Hope your fishes are not getting any worse!

Rgds

Johnson

dttk
Senior Member

Jul 12, 2002, 12:15 PM

Post #30 of 35 (11958 views)
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Re: [Koifun] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, hope you don't mind me budging in... Smile

. Johnson is right, we need more info. How are the other koi behaving? Your pH is borderline low. This pH will not promote growth of good bugs. Best to raise it by adding baking soda. Add 50g of baking soda to 1 ton or 1000L of water. Check the pH the next day. Try to raise it to between 7.5 to 8.0. The good bugs will thrive in this pH and your filter will work better and nitrite will disappear. I do not have any experience with charcoal but I would not use it to reduce nitrite. As Johnson mentioned, better to add salt to make 0.3% salinity, reduce feeding, raise pH and ensure that filter is working properly. Sorry to hear about the dead koi. If the others are behaving normal, just sit back, relax and observe the koi. Smile

"Duku" friendly

koifun
Koi Kichi

Jul 12, 2002, 11:48 PM

Post #31 of 35 (11944 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Many thanks for your response and that of Dr. Tan

Currently I have about 4 x 30 cm , 6x 20cm and about 15 below 15 cm and my pond is FG 8' x 4' x 2.5' filling up to 2.3' water level. My pump rate is about 2500 - 3000 L / h as quoted by manufacturer. This morning I checked the quality again and it was NH4+ 0, N02- 0.1 ppm and the water is cleared up and the koi seem happpier after the death of the new stress kohakus. I have set up an additional filtration system now but there is no media in it yet - just circulating the water. The water is crystal clear now.

The existing filteration system comprises bioball, Jap mat and charcoal in the first compartment. Second compartment consist of coral, chips, clay ball and newly added larva stone and green mat while third consist also coral, clay ball, jap mat and the last compartment is filled with charcoal and calcium ball I think.

The pump spongy filter at the submergsible tend to get pluck up very fast due to large amount of muddy sediment every time I notice the water flow slow down. I am not surprise u will say my pond is overcrowded and I do realise it. I am starting to give away those not so nice ones to reduce the stock level.

I think Dr. Tan is right to think that my pH is a bit low and baking powder may solve my problem. Any idea where can I get this baking powder ? Can I get those from supermarket or sundry shop which meant for cake making? I think most of the items if sold in pet shop are very expensive like rock salt - I could get 30 - 40 cents per kg from sundry shop but fish shop will sell from $1.00 to $3.00. Is there any different - the salt from sundry shop and fish shop?

I am not sure my kohaku died of internal injury or water condition as other fishes are ok. Prior to its death, it had been very rough in the pond that it kept banging onto the pond side with great impact - I saw it almost fainted at one stage after impact.

Any way , all seem very peaceful now and the koi are very happy once again.

Thanks again for the advice. Sly

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

dttk
Senior Member

Jul 13, 2002, 12:03 PM

Post #32 of 35 (11937 views)
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Re: [Koifun] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Koifun

, good to know that your water is clear and the other koi behaving normally. Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate. Baking Powder is not. So don't get baking powder. Baking soda is cheaply available at shops that supply to Bakeries. Over here in PJ, I get mine at RM7 per 2kg. Your tank volume is 8ft x 4ft x 2.25ft = 72cu.ft = 2,038L or 2 tons. Add 50g x 2 or 100g slowly so as not to frighten the koi. Check the pH the next day. If it has reached 7.5, no need to add any more. Reduce feeding to half. Check water for nitrite after few days. It should not be detectable. Inspite of having coral chips in the filter, I do not understand why your pH is 7, unless there is alot of debris in the filter. Your filter media arrangement is not very ideal. Remove the sponge from your submerged pump as it will clog up easily. Having a dirty sponge in the tank is also not good for koi. Have brushes in the 1st compartment to trap solids. Bioballs in 2nd compartment. Jap mats in 3rd compartment. Coral chips or shells in 4th compartment. No need for charcoal anymore. Rock salt from sundry shops are just as good as those from fish shops and yes, you're right.....cheaper too.... Wink

"Duku" friendly

koifun
Koi Kichi

Jul 13, 2002, 9:47 PM

Post #33 of 35 (11929 views)
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Re: [dttk] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi, Doc

Thanks for your advice.

As for the sponge in the pump, wouldn't u agree that it actually prefilter off the dirts which will otherwise be found in the filtration system increase the frequency of having to clean up the filtration chamber. Would appreciate u can enlighten me the benefit of removing it as it is part of the submergsible pump which serve the purpose mentioned.

Honestly i found it beneficial as it also prevent the pump from being choked up if the dirt were to block off the centrifugal compartment of the pump. This has happened to my previous pump b4 which has no prefilter sponge.

Good nite Cool

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"

dttk
Senior Member

Jul 14, 2002, 10:05 AM

Post #34 of 35 (11918 views)
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Re: [Koifun] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Koifun

, it's really a matter of preference abt where you want to place the "pre-filter" sponge. If you feel that it is convenient for you to have it there, by all means do so... Smile

. I personally would not like to keep something that accumulates waste within reach of the koi. Your 1st chamber itself could act as a "pre-biofilter". That's why I suggested brushes in there. The pump in the tank would of course be subjected to blockage by ? leaves or ? sandy particles which get stuck onto the plastic grid, but usually not by waste. So it would require cleaning too once in awhile. As it is, using a submerged pump would break up the waste into finer particles which would contaminate the water. Imagine if the air we're breathing in consist of fine waste particles... Unimpressed

. Having a sponge there to trap the waste and exposing it to the koi which will mess it up is worst... Mad

. That's why waste should not be within the koi's reach if possible. ...oopps...what am I talking about... Shocked

. I think I talked too much already. Have a great Sunday... Wink

.
"Duku" friendly

johnson lee
Koi Kichi

Jul 15, 2002, 11:06 AM

Post #35 of 35 (11907 views)
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Re: [Koifun] Nirite and Flashing problem [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi

Glad to know that your water is clear and the kois are doing well! Smile

However, I would advise you to continue regular checks of your water until you are fairly confident that the water quality has stabilised.

Take dr tan's advice on re-arranging the filter. Always have brushes in 1st chamber to trap solids.

I wish you all the best!

Johnson Smile

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