Home  


  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
Safe way to bring ph down?

 




Web Services & EcommercePurchase Printer Toner and Ink (Original and Remanufactured) Online  - Antivirus Online





ryker
New User

Jun 18, 2001, 10:07 AM

Post #1 of 34 (98295 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? Can't Post

Hello all.
Is there a safe way to bring ph down?
One of our members (NLKC) killed all his fish by the improper use or the wrong kind of vinegar.

I've heard that Sea Chem neutral regulator is
a good product to help prevent ph spikes.Has anyone used it and does it work well?

Thanks for your time.

Regards


Mark
Veteran

Jun 18, 2001, 8:40 PM

Post #2 of 34 (98233 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

What value of pH is troubling you? and is it a new pond?

Never good to use vinegar of any kind if there are fish in the water.

Agreeable that Sea Chem neutral regulator is
a good product to help prevent ph spikes. Use quite abit during my early days of the hobby. But now I use coral chips and cockel shells to maintan the pH in a fully colonized system.



ryker
New User

Jun 19, 2001, 11:00 AM

Post #3 of 34 (98230 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi mark,
Yes...it's a new pond...Ammonia and Nitries are both zero."I've got a full populated filter running on the new pond---taken of another pond."
Ph is 7.6 right now and has been for 3 weeks.I'm just doing my homework for when and if it does spike on me. Smile
I've been told that oyster shells work good as well...I wonder if they will make our hard water even worse?

Thanks for taking the time to answer me.

Matt


Mark
Veteran

Jun 20, 2001, 8:40 AM

Post #4 of 34 (98230 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi
Is it a cement/concrete pond?

Hmmp...looking at the those water parameters, fish should be happy swimming in the pond.

Oyster shells are my preferred choice for pH buffering. No concern for hard water.

Good luck.


(This post was edited by Mark Richman on Aug 6, 2002, 9:00 AM)


ryker
New User

Jun 20, 2001, 7:58 PM

Post #5 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mark,
My new pond is 16ft x 9ft...4 ft deep.
60ml epdm.
Does lemon juice or boric acid work well for bringing down ph safely?

Thanks again

Matt


Mark
Veteran

Jun 21, 2001, 4:48 AM

Post #6 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Matt
60 Mil EPDM is good a synthetic rubber that usually has high flexible stable material characteristic and it should not contribute to high pH.

So what could be the cause of high pH??...hmmmp....??? I am really lost!!!!



ryker
New User

Jun 21, 2001, 12:57 PM

Post #7 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mark,
Sorry your lost...I'm just looking for a safe way to bring ph down IF it spikes....this info I will pass on to members of the club here in town for when they have concerns.
My water is fine...and I hope it stays fine...this is "just incase". Smile

Thanks

Matt


Mark
Veteran

Jun 22, 2001, 9:07 AM

Post #8 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Matt
Thanks for your kind word.

I find no better way than to use either one of these:
1. oyster shells
2. cockel shells
3. coral chips.

I would highly recommend that you fill up one chamber with one of these. Chances of pH spikes will be very very unlikely to occur.

Hope this general info helps.


KOIFLA
Novice

Sep 8, 2001, 3:31 PM

Post #9 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

7.6 SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. WE ARE USE TO OVER 8.5 WHITH ARE WATER. When I started a cement pond the pH was over 9 and the fish seemed OK. I lowered it by using Muratic acid. Cheap. Carfule not to make too big a change in a day. I like our hard 8.0 water. 7.0 would scare me.


denniskweh
User

Sep 9, 2001, 10:11 PM

Post #10 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

hi
I have a natural alternative way to bring down PH. In this part of the world (Singapore and Malaysia at least), there is an abundant supply of a common type of trees called ketapang in local parlance. These dried ketapang leaves which are found on the roadsides are excellent source of giving nutrients and humic acid. It is said that using a few leaves will bring your PH to 6.5 and ths hi of your kohakus will glisten. Some local farms here used them as a water conditioner.

Many websites are available on the subject of ketapang. Perhaps KOIFLA you can find out the equivalent of the tree in your part of the world.

regards
Dennis


TonyG
User

Sep 10, 2001, 6:12 PM

Post #11 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dennis

Sorry, mountain tortise, what is this ketapang leave? how does it looks like? possible to post a picture?? How to use, put it directly on the pond or ...

Thanks in advance

TG


denniskweh
User

Sep 12, 2001, 4:29 AM

Post #12 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

hi Tony
Here is a website on ketapang leaves.
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~tskan/leaves.html


Use those dried leaves which have fallen on the ground. Put about 5-6 dried leaves in a pail of water and soak them. The first hour of the soaked water throw them away. Then soak again for 24 hours. The next day, add the solution to your tank till you see the water a tea colour. Don't put too much. Don't worry the solution will not harm your filter or the fishes. Just make sure you thoroughly wash the leaves with running water for a few minutes and soak as instructed above. Of course,please check that your water PH is not acidic (below 7.0) and try this.

Tell me how it works.
regards
Dennis


TonyG
User

Sep 12, 2001, 6:26 AM

Post #13 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dennis

Thanks for the info. At the moment, i don't think i need any but it is a safe way of bring down the PH (all natural). You see, my pond jump from ph 8 to 8.5. During that week, i increases the dosage of baking soda to increase the KH, which is at 6 (itchy hand). Monitoring the ph closely. anyway, i understand that ph 8.5 is ok for the fish and if i'm not wrong, some of the serious hobbyist in Japan keep their pond at this PH right?

However should i used it, will keep this forum posted on the outcome.

Anyway thanks for the information. Hey, this is reason why this forum is fanstastic, everyone put in their effort to help the others in need. Keep up the spirit guys. Cool

Cheers

Tony


JT818
User

Dec 9, 2001, 3:27 PM

Post #14 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

When speaking of using oyster shells to buffer the ph. Do I use fresh oysters or cooked oyster shells(cooked the oyster, ate it and leave behind the shell)?


dttk
Veteran

Dec 9, 2001, 6:39 PM

Post #15 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, either type is fine as the shell basically remains unchanged. Smile


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 10, 2001, 2:06 AM

Post #16 of 34 (98229 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

hi experts,

just checked my pond water,
ph from 8.0 to 8.6 others zero.

water started to green because 3 days ago, i done total cleaning on all of the chambers...left the mechanical filters dried for 24 hrs..totally forgoten the good bacterias..

at this level of ph...will there be any problem.. advise to reduce the ph safely..
pond @ 2000ltrs

thanks & ragards.



dttk
Veteran

Dec 10, 2001, 5:54 PM

Post #17 of 34 (98231 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tazul, it would be good to stop feeding for a few days to minimise ammonia excretion by koi. Ammonia is more toxic at such high pH levels. Salt your pond to 0.1% to reduce nitrite toxicity. 2kg rock salt in 2000L of water should give a concentration of 0.1%. Check for ammonia/nitrite daily and do some water change if koi starts to behave abnormally. Good luck. Smile


TonyG
User

Dec 10, 2001, 7:59 PM

Post #18 of 34 (98230 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tazul

PH 8 ~ 8.5 is ok for kois but have you check on other parameters? If yes, please post those. And if no, please do so and post your results.

As mention by Dr Tan, ammonia is more toxic at high PH and if do not know your other parameters, stop feeding and let your bug colonize again. You will see results when your pond starts to clear up. At the meantime, test your water and if no ammonia is detected, feed a little (2 days once) for heavy feeding will bring up the ammonia level.

Rgds


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 11, 2001, 2:28 AM

Post #19 of 34 (98229 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dttk & TonyG

Thanks for the advised..have stopped feeding the kois..As requested the water parameters;
ph still 8.6
ammonia < 0.5 ppm
nitrite - 0 ppm
nitrate - 0 mg/l

water is already dark green..cant see the babies..just to confirm the rock salt is known as "garam kasar"???

rgds.




TonyG
User

Dec 11, 2001, 4:46 PM

Post #20 of 34 (98230 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tazul

Yep, your parameter indicates that your filter has not 'kick-in' yet. It will takes a while for it to fully mature. You may change 20 ~ 30% of your water every 3 days and yes, still no feeding. Maybe you can help to post your parameters every 2 to 3 days.

As for your 'garam kasar' question, i have no idea, maybe Dr tan can enlighten. But why don't you use aquarium salt for this purpose. Is 'garam kasar' and aquarium the same?? Wink

Tony


dttk
Veteran

Dec 11, 2001, 6:24 PM

Post #21 of 34 (98230 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup, garam kasar is rock salt or aquarium salt. The frequency of water change would depend on the rate of ammonia buildup. If high levels are detected, more water may be changed more frequently. As Tony mentioned, zero feeding is the best way to minimise this rate. Imagine that it is always better to have clean air all the time even if it means we have to starve alittle, right? Smile

(This post was edited by dttk on Nov 12, 2001, 9:00 AM)


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 14, 2001, 6:38 AM

Post #22 of 34 (98229 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi dttk & Tony G

my water parameter still the same.. still not adding any salt into pond..just came back from 2 days seminar in KL

rgds



TonyG
User

Dec 14, 2001, 4:44 PM

Post #23 of 34 (98230 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tazul

Is your pond still as green?? During your absence, did anyone cannot resist but feed the kois?? Smile

You see, if your water starts to turn clear, it means your filter is begining to works although you resistered NH4. Change 30 ~ 40% of water and remember to dechlor it. Yes, still no feeding, if really need to, feed a little but do not take any reading at least 6 hours after feeding. If not the reading may not be accurate.

Good luck and please keep posting the progress.

TonyG


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 16, 2001, 5:02 AM

Post #24 of 34 (98229 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi TonyG

Today morning taken another reading..
ph down to 8.2
ammonia, nitrite & nitrate still the same..

water start to clear..and just give them some food before driving back to Tapah, Perak to celebrate hari raya..

will update u later...and another thing i found few of my kois have some black spots on the heads and scales..is it some kind of desease.. cant find in the books.

pls advise on my new problem n will change water and adding salt after raya..

rgds.


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 20, 2001, 8:19 PM

Post #25 of 34 (98229 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi experts,

just came back from raya.. water still dark green ..this morning changed 30% water..dichlor.

bought 2 kg of salt (need advise) b4 adding into pond

rgds



TonyG
User

Dec 21, 2001, 12:56 AM

Post #26 of 34 (38330 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tazul

Welcome back, hope you enjoy your holiday.

How is the water parameter, please post the actual reading. If the filter shows signs of maturing, this is what i will do, i will change 80 ~ 90% of the water (others may be against it but this is exactly what i will do) and will monitor from there. The greenish this is the pond is algae and it looks like it blooms there . This maybe due to the nitrate which 'fertilize' the algae which is the end product of the whole cycle. Some says that clay will help to remove the algae, but in your case, i will advise not to.

As for the specks of black spots on your kois, i read that it is because of the 'poor' water quality. It will slowly disappear if you get the water in control.

Regards


SMW1
Veteran

Dec 21, 2001, 12:59 AM

Post #27 of 34 (38330 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tazul,

When adding salt. The easiest way to work out how much to add is this simple equation:

1000 litres of water weighs 1000kg.

So I'm not sure how much water you have in your pond. Lets say its 10,000 litres. To make a 0.1% salt resolution, you need to add 10kg of salt (I know it sounds allot, but its right trust me).

0.1% of salt will prevent nitrate poisioning.
However if you say you now have black spots on the koi it may be worth increasing this to 0.3% which will be 30kg of salt.

To add the salt you should just spinkle it over the surface, make sure you get all of the pond. Adding 30kg of salt in one shot will stress your fish, you need to introduce it gradually. Add about 2kg every 2 hours. Over the weekend will be best (unless you are around during weekdays).

You may want to net one of your fish for closer examination of the black spots.
They may be ancor worms. Just make sure that the spots do not have a tail poking out.
apart from that the 0.3% salt should get rid of most parasites.

Unless its a case of life or death, you should never change more than 50% of the water at any one time. Sorry to disagree Tony [biggrin].

Don't worry too much about your green water for now, the bio filter takes about 3 -4 week to fully mature (sometimes longer, depending on the weather). The more important is getting your water down to the relevant levels.

Also, can you post some information about your filter set up, as we may be able to suggest some minor adjustments that will help you out a great deal.

I hope this helps.

Stuart


(This post was edited by SMW1 on Aug 12, 2002, 9:00 AM)


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 22, 2001, 6:43 PM

Post #28 of 34 (38329 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi SMW1

I have 5 chambers,
1st with mid. size 40 brushes
2nd with 5 kgs of coral under 2 layers of coarse blue (local) matting
3rd with 5 layers of fine white matting
4th with 600 bio balls (80% wet)
5th with pump + 2 kgs of carbons + 3 mid. size yam trees
I also have 18 in height waterfall and fountain for oxygenation..Pump run with timer..15 mins stopped 60 mins pumping round the clock.

Today is raining at my place cant take any reading.. pond is about 2000 ltrs..will add salts @ 6kgs to 0.3% (confirmed)..will try to catch the fish to inspect as suggested..

rgds


sauwen
New User

Dec 23, 2001, 2:07 PM

Post #29 of 34 (38330 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi there, once il have a problem with high ph the solution is esey you must areate te water the mutch air you bring in to your water the lower the ph go. after il started a triklefilter my problem was over greetings frans from belgium.


SMW1
Veteran

Dec 25, 2001, 2:24 AM

Post #30 of 34 (38330 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Tazul,

You filter sounds great. You should have no problem keeping the Water parameters up to scratch once it kicks in.

Salt level sound goos as well. Is there any reason you have a stop start process on your pump ?. If its to save you money. Then it may not be worth it.

It works the same as a light in your house. It cost you more money to turn the light on and off twice in 5 mins than it does to keep it on for 15.

It may be worth you taking your meter readings to see how much you are saving. A pump does not use much electricity.

Or is there another reason ?

Happy Christmas and New year.

Hi Sauwen,
The Trickle tower really works against Amonia and Nitrates, so your paramerters should be very pleasing to the koi.

The Fight against high PH is usually a smaller problem than it seems. Oyster shells & baking soda are you best bet to win the fight although some people use coral, which in the long run bad some bad side effects.

Stuart


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 27, 2001, 3:18 PM

Post #31 of 34 (38327 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi experts

thanks for advise on pump..actually no reasons for that..will remove timer.

today water parameters
ph - 8.4
ammonia - 0.5
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0

increase in ammonia i believe.. have stopped feeding for two days already
cought few kois found fish lice..

how long to keep 0.3% of salts in the pond..when to change the water 30 - 50%...
advise pls.

rgds


SMW1
Veteran

Dec 28, 2001, 1:58 AM

Post #32 of 34 (38328 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

You should not keeep you water at 0.3% for more than 4 weeks.
As well as killing parasites in your pond, salt also enhances the koi's mucus production glands. If these glands are overactive for too long this is one of the causes of cloud eye.

As soon as you see the parasites dying off then I would suggest a couple of 30% - 40% water changes over a weekend. This should then bring thae water down to around the 0.1% salt solution which you can keep for as long as you like.

Stuart


Tazul Adzhar Ishak
Deleted

Dec 29, 2001, 7:09 AM

Post #33 of 34 (38327 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi SMW1,

Thanks for advised..water start to clear..
can see them swimming now.. will do water change as suggested..

rgds


SMW1
Veteran

Jan 1, 2002, 1:57 AM

Post #34 of 34 (38328 views)
Shortcut
Safe way to bring ph down? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I'm happy to hear your water is clearing. Glad I could be of help.

Stuart

 
 



Search for (options) Back to Koi.com.my Main Page

  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement     
Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.  
No part of the forum postings can be copied without prior permission from Hileytech Sdn Bhd and the Author of the Posting.
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at koi@hileytech.com