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oorah
User

Jun 21, 2009, 2:02 AM

Post #1 of 112 (16237 views)
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UV light Can't Post

I read a post stating that the UV light should only be used up to 4000 hours......can someone verify this....my UV light has over 17000 hours on it.....

thanks


andy


PH8
Veteran


Jun 21, 2009, 4:49 AM

Post #2 of 112 (16225 views)
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Re: [oorah] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Good morning Andy,

I'm not an expert at these things, but allow me to hazard a guess. UV lights are used for many things, not just for control of unicellular algae in koi ponds. The UV light you have may light up for an average of 17,000 hours, but the fact is that they lose their effectiveness in killing unicellular algae after about 4,000 hours. I don't know the technical reason why this is so, but it is true. The fact that the UV light is still working and alight doesn't mean it is still effective for its purpose in a koi pond. Hope this helps.Smile


Cheers,
Paul



oorah
User

Jun 21, 2009, 9:26 AM

Post #3 of 112 (16216 views)
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Re: [PH8] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks paul......will go out and buy a new UV light.....wasnt aware of the effectivness factor....thanks for your time



andy


larz1
Veteran


Jun 21, 2009, 2:40 PM

Post #4 of 112 (16199 views)
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Re: [oorah] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of them recommend annual replacement which is generally a good idea. I look at it this way.
If the water isn't green something must be workingCool If it is greenTongue maybe not working so goodWink


harryluhur
User


Jun 21, 2009, 5:03 PM

Post #5 of 112 (16189 views)
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Re: [oorah] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Oorah,
I agree with Bro Paul, you can notice this simple with your house light. If you use your house TL light for 1 year, though it is still working, but when you change to a new bulb, you can see the different, new light will be more brighter.
Change UV light every 4000 hours is better than having a green water in your pond.

---------------------------------------
Harry Luhur
36 AQUATIC - Indonesia
Professional Pond Builder and Consultant


Koi Koi
User

Jun 22, 2009, 6:48 AM

Post #6 of 112 (16160 views)
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Re: [oorah] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Andy,

UV lights are installed to help achieve clear water by killing unicellular algae. However, it does not mean that all ponds require UV lights to achieve clear water. A well designed, maintained and matured biological filter plus good plant vegetation can also prevent formation of green water. In my personal experience, I have a small concrete pond that has good clear water without the use of UV light. This pond has a matured biological filter plus some plant vegetation. It has maintained clear water for over a year now. Recently, I have built a new pond and it is about 4 weeks old now. There is no sign of green water although no UV light has been installed. However, I do have 2 biological filters ( DIY Skippy Filters) and some water plants to remove Nitrates from the water.

In your case, you have been using the existing UV light for almost 2 years now and I presume you're not encountering any green water. This being the case, either your UV light is still sufficiently effective (albeit it may not be performing at 100% efficiency) for your pond or your pond's filtration system has now matured to the point whereby the Nitrogen Cycle has reached an equilibrium that can prevent geeen water from developing.

In view of the above, if you're satisfied with the current water clarity, there is really no great urgency to replace the UV light because this may not give much improvement to the current water clarity.

Just a suggestion for your consideration.

Regards,
Koi Koi


oorah
User

Jun 25, 2009, 3:06 AM

Post #7 of 112 (16103 views)
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Re: [Koi Koi] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

this has been two days since I changed my UV light.....whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat a difference....


thanks guys


Koi Koi
User

Jun 25, 2009, 4:36 AM

Post #8 of 112 (16092 views)
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Re: [oorah] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the feedback.

Glad to hear that your new UV light has improved your water clarity significantly. It appears that you did have some green water issues previously.

Regards,
Koi Koi


harryluhur
User


Jun 26, 2009, 8:10 AM

Post #9 of 112 (16052 views)
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Re: [oorah] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Oorah,
Glad to hear you solved your problem, Keep coming to this friendly forum. You never know what you will learn to keep your kois at the best.

WELCOME.

---------------------------------------
Harry Luhur
36 AQUATIC - Indonesia
Professional Pond Builder and Consultant


oorah
User

Jul 15, 2009, 4:41 AM

Post #10 of 112 (15856 views)
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back to dirty [In reply to] Can't Post

man.....I thought I had the dirty pond taken care of......when I changed to UV light the water clarity was great....now with the weather being more warmer the water clarity is just like it was before I purchased the new UV light......I was reading some of the questions concerning UV lights and was unaware that the UV light kills bacteria......correct me if I am wrong....but doesnt pond bacteria clear the water up as well.....should I buy pond bacteria and put it in my pond....


thanks


raistlin
User

Jul 15, 2009, 9:25 AM

Post #11 of 112 (15823 views)
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Re: [oorah] back to dirty [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Oorah,

Bacteria is a lot more resilient than you think. Pond UV light actually targets free-floating algae that are much simpler in cell structure and even then, the UV light usually takes a few passes or longer duration to break down the structure and 'kill' them. As for beneficial bacteria, UV lights should not impact it too much. Especially because you are relying more on the bacteria colonies that form in your filters and pond walls rather than the free-floating ones, although the free-floating bacteria do serve their purpose.

Since your pond sounds very old with many hours behind it your issue should not be due to immature filters. I assume then you are in a place with 4 seasons and that you have recently come out of the cold season. If that's the case your bio-filter also needs time to grow to cope with the increased bio-load. Some pond bacteria to help speed up this process would help to some degree, but don't expect miracles. Wink What you can do to help is probably cut back on the feeding for a while and do some partial water changes.

Just FYI, a properly-designed, adequately-sized and mature bio-filter is theorized by some to actually negate the requirement for UV lights. But I think most of us out there probably need that little bit of help from UVs.. Laugh In any case, most people believe a bit of green water is good for our kois. It's just harder for the koi lovers to see their koi thats all hehe... Be aware though that green water is a sign that your nitrates are probably rising so you may want to test for that and manage your pond accordingly.

Cheers!
Raistlin


harryluhur
User


Jul 15, 2009, 5:21 PM

Post #12 of 112 (15788 views)
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Re: [oorah] back to dirty [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Oorah,

UV only kill the free floating algae which commonly known as green water/green pea soup.
It won't kill nitrification bacteria which attach to biological bacteria such as bioball or japmat, etc.

If your problem with green water is solve but your pond still dirty, there are a few possibilities, such as :
1. Your mechanical filtration cannot filter fish waste and other accumulated debris.
2. You never do routine filter cleaning and water change.
3. Wrong pond water inflow and outflow which cause the debris is not drawn to your mechanical filtration chamber.
4. Too much feeding.

You may check the above possibilities. The sort term solution is like Raistlin suggest, reduce feeding and do partial water changes. And pls do check ammonia, nitrite and nitrate on your pond.

---------------------------------------
Harry Luhur
36 AQUATIC - Indonesia
Professional Pond Builder and Consultant


oorah
User

Jul 15, 2009, 7:12 PM

Post #13 of 112 (15771 views)
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pond [In reply to] Can't Post

let me tell you a little about my pond...I built it in 2004......its about 17 feet long by 5 feet wide by 4 feet deep and has about 1200 gal of water.....I try and change about 150 gal water every two weeks.....my area is southern california about 1 mile from the ocean...temp ranges from 34 to 80 degrees......I currently have the original 12 koi in my pond and they are doing great...no problems except for the water.....about three weeks ago the water started changing from clear to "I can see half way down"....thats when I asked about the UV light and replaced it with good results until a couple of days ago.....the temp in the area has gone up to the eightys....my pond is covered by a filtered tarp so no direct sunlight gets to the water....about four months ago I split a 15 foot piece of bamboo in half and put it down the middle of the pond hanging from other bamboo so the water from the outflow goes down the bamboo to the end of the bamboo into the pond....along the way...water flows over the sides of the bamboo sought of splashing over the sides creating a trickling system the whole length of the flow....I have a Aqua Ultima 2 bio-mechanical filtration system....I was told not to open up the filter ...when I backwash it the system should be ok.....but sometold me I should open it up once a year and clean it out.....I did that last year.....

thanks.......


harryluhur
User


Jul 15, 2009, 8:55 PM

Post #14 of 112 (15762 views)
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Re: [oorah] pond [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Oorah,
I assumed that no alteration to the koi pond and filtration in recent times ?
Doing 10% water changes every 2 weeks is sufficient. But how about the backwashing the ultima filter ? I am not familiar with the product, and i do google it, and considering the media it used, i don't think it is enough for mechanical filtration.

After u change the UV light, and the pond is clear, do you do any backwashing ? Some death algae may accumulate in the ultima filter, and if it is not backwashing on the routine schedule, the debris may flow back to pond creating a very small particles that make your pond water cloudy.

Pls reply with recent alteration you do on your pond. It is so unlikely to happen, pls updating bro..

---------------------------------------
Harry Luhur
36 AQUATIC - Indonesia
Professional Pond Builder and Consultant


oorah
User

Jul 16, 2009, 1:03 AM

Post #15 of 112 (15750 views)
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backwash [In reply to] Can't Post

backwash is part of the filter system.....there is a lever on the top of the unit which when turned to backwash will flush out the dirty water and then clean the inside as well.....when I let out the water (120 gal) I am actually backwashing it as it comes out....

thanks


raistlin
User

Jul 16, 2009, 5:38 AM

Post #16 of 112 (15730 views)
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Re: [oorah] backwash [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Oorah,

Dun worry too much about 'visibly dirty water' as long as your fish are looking healthy. Smile As long as you do water tests and make sure it is in the healthy range. Feed less, change water more frequently (I'd do 10% every 2 days, and please treat your water before adding it) for a while and be patient. Nature has its own way of settling the rest. Just make sure you monitor the koi and make sure they don't behave weird or have signs of ill health like veining of fins and sores etc.

Cheers!
Raistlin


harryluhur
User


Jul 16, 2009, 6:50 AM

Post #17 of 112 (15720 views)
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Re: [oorah] backwash [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Oorah,
it is difficult to judge your pond condition.
Please post a photo of your pond from above, a clear glass with water from the pond, and also pond parameter such as pH, amonia, nitrite and nitrate (can use cheap strip test kit).

Cloudy water is common for new pond, but your system has been running for a while and condition have been superb. If suddenly this happen, then surely there is something wrong with the pond.

---------------------------------------
Harry Luhur
36 AQUATIC - Indonesia
Professional Pond Builder and Consultant


Epal63
User

Aug 18, 2009, 1:03 PM

Post #18 of 112 (15322 views)
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Re: [Koi Koi] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi All,

I know that UV is used to prevent green water. It is very effective which I have experienced before. But recently, my UV kaput and I didn't replace it. The water condition is still clear despite without any UV running for 4 weeks! I am trying to see if my pond can do without UV.

Is there anyone who does not use UV light and still no green water?

Cheers.
Francis


cookcpu
User

Aug 18, 2009, 1:27 PM

Post #19 of 112 (15317 views)
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Re: [Epal63] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

I turn off my UV light for 1 month or more so far so good. Now I turn it on again just to check whether the UV light is ok.


PH8
Veteran


Aug 18, 2009, 2:10 PM

Post #20 of 112 (15291 views)
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Re: [Epal63] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bro Francis,

Very interesting observation indeed. In the past, I never dared to switch my UV lights off. This is because whenever 1 of my 5 UV lights conked out, the water clarity would suffer already, to some degree. Total clarity always comes back once the blown bulb is replaced. I dared not imagine how my water would look if I took all 5 offline! Maybe I will pluck up enough courage to try once my new pond has settled down...SlySlySly


Cheers,
Paul


Koi Koi
User

Aug 19, 2009, 4:43 AM

Post #21 of 112 (15190 views)
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Re: [Epal63] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Francis,

My recently completed liner pond (Please refer my thread titled DIY Liner Pond) has been in operation for 3 months now and there is still no sign of green water, even though no UV light was installed since day one of operation. However, on day one itself, I did have a matured biological filter from my previous small concrete pond serving the liner pond. Note that my small concrete pond also did not have any UV light installed and it was in operation for over a year without any green water problem.

Based on my personal experience, I strongly believe that if you have a well designed and efficient biological filter, the biological filter by itself can prevent green water from developing. My liner pond did not experience the commonly encountered New Pond Syndrom even though the pond is exposed to direct sunlight for more than 8 hours a day. In addition to the matured biological filter, I also have a number of plants placed inside the pond to help remove Nitrates, which is the source of food for the unicelluler green algae. I believe these plants have deprived the algae of the necessary nutrients for them to grow.

I must report though during the initial 4 to 8 weeks of operation, there were a lot of string algae (up to 3 ins long) developing on the upper walls of the pond i.e. from the surface of the water to 8 ins depth. I have since 4 weeks ago mechanically removed the string algae and now,the pond seems to have stabilized with a layer of carpet algae measuring about 3 to 5 mm thick on the pond walls and bottom.

It would be interesting if other pond owners who have fully developed biological filters and UV lights installed to switch off their UV lights for say 2 to 4 weeks and report if they see any green water developing.

Regards,
koi koi




In Reply To
Hi All,

I know that UV is used to prevent green water. It is very effective which I have experienced before. But recently, my UV kaput and I didn't replace it. The water condition is still clear despite without any UV running for 4 weeks! I am trying to see if my pond can do without UV.

Is there anyone who does not use UV light and still no green water?

Cheers.
Francis



aryan8277
User


Aug 19, 2009, 4:53 AM

Post #22 of 112 (15182 views)
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Re: [Koi Koi] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Francis,

My recently completed liner pond (Please refer my thread titled DIY Liner Pond) has been in operation for 3 months now and there is still no sign of green water, even though no UV light was installed since day one of operation. However, on day one itself, I did have a matured biological filter from my previous small concrete pond serving the liner pond. Note that my small concrete pond also did not have any UV light installed and it was in operation for over a year without any green water problem.

Based on my personal experience, I strongly believe that if you have a well designed and efficient biological filter, the biological filter by itself can prevent green water from developing. My liner pond did not experience the commonly encountered New Pond Syndrom even though the pond is exposed to direct sunlight for more than 8 hours a day. In addition to the matured biological filter, I also have a number of plants placed inside the pond to help remove Nitrates, which is the source of food for the unicelluler green algae. I believe these plants have deprived the algae of the necessary nutrients for them to grow.

I must report though during the initial 4 to 8 weeks of operation, there were a lot of string algae (up to 3 ins long) developing on the upper walls of the pond i.e. from the surface of the water to 8 ins depth. I have since 4 weeks ago mechanically removed the string algae and now,the pond seems to have stabilized with a layer of carpet algae measuring about 3 to 5 mm thick on the pond walls and bottom.

It would be interesting if other pond owners who have fully developed biological filters and UV lights installed to switch off their UV lights for say 2 to 4 weeks and report if they see any green water developing.

Regards,
koi koi




In Reply To
Hi All,

I know that UV is used to prevent green water. It is very effective which I have experienced before. But recently, my UV kaput and I didn't replace it. The water condition is still clear despite without any UV running for 4 weeks! I am trying to see if my pond can do without UV.

Is there anyone who does not use UV light and still no green water?

Cheers.
Francis




i have never used UV. dont know why. tried it before, its effect is slow and current consumption is high ...
so just maintain the filter in correct order.. so far dont have the issue


PH8
Veteran


Aug 19, 2009, 5:03 AM

Post #23 of 112 (15179 views)
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Re: [Koi Koi] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Good morning KK,

I think string algae may be part of a seasonal algae bloom, and it is possible that it will come back again one day. Whilst it is a proven fact that plants do consume nitrates, it is in such negligible amounts that it does not have any significant impact at all. I believe it was JR on another forum who documented (not in the same words) that for plants to significantly reduce nitrate levels in a typical koi pond, we would need an entire padi field! Having plants in your pond only introduces more parasites. Also, koi like to mess about with plants and this would end up messing up the water too. JMHO.SmileSmile

Cheers,
Paul


Epal63
User

Aug 19, 2009, 5:12 AM

Post #24 of 112 (15176 views)
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Re: [PH8] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Good Morning Bro Paul,

How could plants introduce more parasites? I have some plants (without soild) in a pot submerged in my pond.

Cheers.
Francis


PH8
Veteran


Aug 19, 2009, 5:39 AM

Post #25 of 112 (15170 views)
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Re: [Epal63] UV light [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is an interesting write up by Jim Reilly on the subject of plants in the water, as lifted off Koi-Bito forum. His words are worth a lot more than my own..

No plants in a koi pond! Just like we have no gravel in koi ponds, the scale of koi in a closed system does not make for a healthy environment. The simplest way to cut to the chase on plants in koi ponds is to say that the premise for using plants in a koi pond is flawed.

In the majority of cases, plants are used with one of two things in mind, 1) that plants make for a balanced system like in nature. And 2) that plants remove nitrate do that they are a form of filtration. As I said, both there beliefs are incorrect.

A closed system in which you place an ungodly amount of fish, by body weight to water volume, can never be viewed as a 'natural system' and will NEVER work that way. Just as we have to create an artificial zone for massive bacteria proliferation, we would need to create a major plant bed (remote) for plants to make a meaningful contribution to water quality. And even then, the massive chamber would also be adding more water , but non stockable water, to assist in the illusion that plants were a real benefit. To point #2, plants remove nitrate from water. But koi produce 10X - 100X what plants need in this regard. The selling point that plants are nitrate removers is they grow so well in the presence of fish nitrogenous waste. But that is a tribute to the powers of the nitrogenous waste to benefit plants- not that plants are living sponges that remove all the waste koi are producing. A simple water change will remove more nitrate more efficiently than a section of plants will, and add back more benefits than plants do in the process.

Lastly carp are not ideally found where water plants grow. They go to planted areas to feed and spawn but LIVE in faster moving water situations. The best plant environment is a slow moving warm water environment. Koi like and flourish in the opposite. Plants need shallow water, koi need deeper water. Plants like nutrients, koi need to be protected against progressive nutrification in their environment. Plants like carbon dioxide and neutral to acidic water conditions, koi like neutral to slightly alkaline systems and low carbon dioxide.

I do appreciate that a very stable water garden with a few tosai can have benefit for that stage of life. Lots of food, shade, low stress- all good. But the scale can be disrupted as the fish grow or additional individuals are added. this is a 'situation' of success and not a 'formula' for success. IMHO JR



And here is another interesting thread to read, also on Koi-Bito forum.

I think most parasites carried by plants come in the soil/roots. Anchor worms, argulus, even leeches and snails. Strange as it may sound, plants must be quarantined/treated before adding to koi ponds too.

There's a whole debate out there on the international forums on water gardeners vs serious koi keeping, which Brother Larry is very in tune with SlySly. By and large, you will be very hard pressed to find any serious hobbyist who has plants in his koi pond. And there are reasons why this is so. Very generally speaking, and without prejudice or offence to anyone, the WG group tends to look at his pond as a beautiful water feature (the beauty of the koi is peripheral) whilst the serious koi keeper looks to his KOI as the works of art, and not the pond per se. To each his own, I guess.


Cheers,
Paul


(This post was edited by PH8 on Aug 19, 2009, 6:01 AM)

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