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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
algae bar

 






 


philliu
Koi Lover

Jul 11, 2003, 5:48 AM

Post #1 of 12 (3295 views)
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algae bar Can't Post

Dear everyone,

anybody have used "alage bar" ? I just found out this product from search engine, pls go to http://www.alagebar.com to see it,

the question I want to ask is, if alage bar keeps releasing copper to the water, I am sure the algae will be gone soon, but how about koi ? will koi's health get decreased from too much copper in water for long ?

each bar is good for 7000 gal pool water, I only have 500 gal pond, they say it is ok ... I don't know if copper will finally gone by time or .....

pls help me ... tks.



Phil.


douglezzz
Koi Lover

Jul 11, 2003, 7:58 AM

Post #2 of 12 (3284 views)
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Re: [philliu] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

That's ridiculous.
That is a swimming pool product and has no business being around fish.
The website sucks... No real name or contact info.
The guy is a web tv user.. not that that is bad but sure as hell is no way to conduct a business.
Sorry... I'm a pessimist... a fifty year old one at that.
I know BS when I smell/see it.
Stick to conventional methods of algae control.
There is no miracle. It takes proper care and design.

In your pond make sure you have a good bit of shade(60% all day or more) and proper filtration and you should have no algae problems at all.
Shade is VERY important, especially in a small pond.


(This post was edited by douglezzz on Jul 11, 2003, 8:02 AM)


coaxfun
Koi Lover

Jul 20, 2003, 11:01 AM

Post #3 of 12 (3224 views)
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Re: [douglezzz] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I'm not AS pessimistic. Copper does work to control algae. And, you -can- use it to control algae in a pond.... but I certainly wouldn't suggest it. It is sometimes used in aquariums, but a pond? Copper WILL poison fish at highlevels.... Stick with conventional algae control. These is no such thing as a free lunch.


Mike Gallagher
New User

Jul 21, 2003, 7:50 AM

Post #4 of 12 (3212 views)
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Re: [philliu] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post



As the inventor of the Algae bar I don’t usually post to these forums. It would sound like a sales pitch. But this is a discussion about my product and I feel I must defend it. Copper ions do indeed kill algae. I do not feel the need to reply to douglezzz . He is to far gone.





The testimonials on my webpage are from actual users of the Algae Bar. We oringinally sold only to pool owners. But we started getting feedback from people using the Algae Bar in their koi ponds. Everyone told how well and fast it worked to clear their ponds of algae. When we started getting repeat sales from these same people we started thinking we were on to something. We still worried that the copper could build up to the point that it would harm the fish and plants. This part of our webpage says it best:




”An Algae Bar is a slow release method of adding copper ions to your pond water. The copper ions are added slowly over the course of days and weeks. Over the course of several weeks the copper content of your ponds water will raise imperceptually. You will know the Algae Bar is working because your pond's water will clear up as you filter your water. Once the algae is gone and the pond water clears up you can remove the Algae Bar from your pond. This will prevent the copper ions from accumulating more than is needed to prevent green algae. If you start seeing signs of algae reappearing you will know the level of copper ions has diminished and you can put the Algae Bar back into your pond to start the process over again.

You can't overdose your pond with copper by forgetting about the Algae Bar. The electrolytic effect that releases the copper ions also tarnishes the copper ends of the Algae Bar. This tarnishing of the exposed copper blocks the emission of copper ions. Once or twice a week, depending on the temperature of the pond water, you will need to clean the copper ends of the Algae Bar. If you forget about the Algae Bar for weeks on end without cleaning the copper ends the electrolytic effect stops, preventing your pond water from being overdosed with copper ions.”




You see, went everyone thinks of adding copper to their ponds they think of one big massive dose of copper. Once a liquid is added to your pond water it is permanent. The only way to remove it is to drain your pond. You can remove an Algae Bar, no more Algae Bar, no more copper being added to your pond water. It’s that simple!



My point in a nutshell is this: add the copper slowly, day by day until the algae clears. Then remove the Algae Bar. You will eventually see small patches of the algae returning. At this time you replace the Algae Bar until the algae clears up again. I would appreciate any feedback to show me how I could be wrong.



Mike Gallagher




BranMuffin
Koi Kichi


Jul 21, 2003, 8:20 AM

Post #5 of 12 (3207 views)
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Re: [philliu] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

You be the Judge: Here's a discussion on the effects of copper in the NI Forum. Hopefully they don't pull it off before all interested parties can read the comments, since it's an old thread and they don't have the space to keep old Threads forever.

http://www.novogate.com/forums/402/1525/7572-1.html

From this thread, you can draw your own conclusions.

Best Regards
Bran

A Koi Pond is never FINISHED, it's always subject to improvement.
Drives the Spouse Crazy!


Atomahawk
Koi Lover

Jul 22, 2003, 8:50 AM

Post #6 of 12 (3186 views)
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Re: [BranMuffin] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

I have read your link and the information is correct, not only long term but short term exposure to copper is detrimental to fish and their envioroment.

I have observed this personally in medicating delicate marine fish of the butterfly family for parasite problems. Though we were using .5 ppm copper sulfate which is less than half what is suggested for treatment they for 3 or so days they often died weeks later from even this short exposure.

Long term exposure is even worse not just for fish but for other desirable organism and animals that often accompany the natural pond. All invertebrates are extremely sensitive to copper, animals such as snails that act as natural algae scrubbers and excrement scavengers die at low level exposure. Bio filters often become lethargic in consuming and converting ammonia to nitrite thus total dissolved organics accumulate, then oxygen depletion acquires, further stressing fish and pond organisms.

Copper is a bad product for fish and home even for short term exposure to control algae, it’s just not the way to do it.


waranji
Koi Lover

Jun 15, 2004, 4:45 AM

Post #7 of 12 (2846 views)
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Re: [philliu] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi!

I want to share my experiece on Algae Bar. I KILL my entire pond!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I have a choice.... I WILL NOT use this in my precious KOI pond.
Please note that Japanese KOI is NOT as hardy as regular pond fish!

All I can do now is to sit besides my pond and remove my slippers and wack my head!!! Y y... tell me y...


khaku2
Novice


Jun 15, 2004, 5:43 AM

Post #8 of 12 (2841 views)
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Re: [waranji] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

lol everyone has atleast 1 koi die if not the whole pond to doe, its destiny. it happens to almost everyone. by the way whats an algae bar. pllzz post a pic of it





Warning : This khaku2 has made a great number of posts in this forum and most of them are posted just for the sake of posting. You may wish to ignore his post if you are not sure whether what he posted is right or wrong.



Aussie Koi
Koi Lover


Jun 20, 2004, 7:26 AM

Post #9 of 12 (2786 views)
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Re: [khaku2] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

My 2 cents worth
COPPER KILLS FISH.
There are many better and safer ways of getting rid of algae.
You would have to be insane IMHO
Regards




Aussie Koi

http://www.aussiekoi.com
I am a water keeper.
I look after the water and the Koi look after them selves!!!


DocRodConrad
Koi Lover

Jul 3, 2004, 8:16 PM

Post #10 of 12 (2675 views)
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Re: [Aussie Koi] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

Using a copper bar in a koi pond to control algae is an accident waiting to happen. Yes, the copper will leach out and control algae to improve water clarity. No, the koi will not die right away. But if the following conditions occur, then the entire pond will die suddenly from the algae bar:

Event 1: Ponder adds algae bar to pond.
Event 2: Ponder is very pleased to see water clear from use of algae bar.
Event 3: The ponder does not maintain the water quality adequately, and the pH becomes slightly acidic.
Event 4: At slightly acid pH values, more copper dissolves, since the solubility of copper is much higher at lower pH values.
Event 5: The copper in solution is much more toxic at lower pH values, as well as there being more copper dissolved at the lower pH values.
Event 6: At the higher levels of copper from the low pH, and the higher toxicity of copper at low pH values, and not much water exchange, all the koi die.
Event 7: The seller of the algae bar will come back to this thread with all the testimonials of how well it works for some ponds, and the answer back to him is, yes, if the pH is kept dependably above 7.5, the algae bar probably won't ever be toxic to the koi. But not all of us are such good koi keepers to keep the alkalinity and pH so well controlled in the upper end of the preferred range.

By the way, the koi are most likely to die from the algae bar in the middle of the night when pH and alkalinity are always at their lowest values.
Roddy Conrad, Charleston, WV, USA


dttk
Senior Member

Jul 4, 2004, 9:42 AM

Post #11 of 12 (2661 views)
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Re: [DocRodConrad] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the info. Smile
Always friendly :)


khaku2
Novice


Jul 4, 2004, 1:09 PM

Post #12 of 12 (2643 views)
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Re: [DocRodConrad] algae bar [In reply to] Can't Post

copper a time bomb just waiting to explodeUnimpressedUnimpressedUnimpressedUnimpressed





Warning : This khaku2 has made a great number of posts in this forum and most of them are posted just for the sake of posting. You may wish to ignore his post if you are not sure whether what he posted is right or wrong.


 
 
 



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