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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
cold water transfer

 





 


amoonda
New User

Nov 6, 2007, 2:15 AM

Post #1 of 15 (2064 views)
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cold water transfer Can't Post
I had two koi's in my house for a few months growing to put in my mom's pond. When I went to transfer them to a cold tank, they both died. i left them in the bucket for about 45- 60 mins to adjust since the temperature was a huge change. Could leaving them in the bucket too long kill them?


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Nov 8, 2007, 11:03 PM

Post #2 of 15 (2034 views)
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Re: [amoonda] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Amoonda,
Unfortunately you have come to the right place just too late to save your Koi. You can stress fish with drastic temperature drops. Dr. Johnson says a drop in temperature as little as 20 degrees will shock and probably kill your fish.


wrxsti
Koi Lover

Nov 10, 2007, 1:21 PM

Post #3 of 15 (2019 views)
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Re: [amoonda] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
I agree with brianhegney they probably were adapted to the warm water and the dramatic temperature change could of shocked them to death. Another possible reason is maybe the water wasn't properly setup? for example the ph was off, to much chlorine, etc.



LAM
Koi Lover

Dec 21, 2007, 8:44 AM

Post #4 of 15 (1827 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Hey people. I have a pond in Pittsburgh,Pa. Just wondered if anyone can answer a question about winter ing koi outside. My koi have been getting used to the temps. Recently we had a dip. Many of my koi are on thier sides in the pond. Pond is 3ft and a few inches. Cave is deep and they can winter in there if they wanted. Anyway, I have a bubbler for oxygen, a heating stone for a hole in ice if it does, and the koi are alive, swim occasionally, but alot are on their sides. I hate it. I am not sure if this is ok and that they will still do well the rest of the winter or not. I have been told that bringing them in is too late and the shock would kill them. I need advice on my poor beauties. I had koi in Alabama. This is the first pond in the north. I felt I was getting good advice, but now the local pond supply place is at a loss for advice. Thanks.
Lola


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Dec 21, 2007, 10:08 PM

Post #5 of 15 (1796 views)
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Re: [LAM] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Lola,
How fast was the water temperature change? Is your pump on the bottom? It should be re-circulating the water from the top of the pond leaving the bottom water undisturbed for a slightly warmer place for them to go. I can quote Dr. Johnson in his book "Koi Health & Disease-Reloaded-2006", I strongly suggest that you get this book ASAP, but for now I will need to paraphrase it. He says that fish in cold-shock will be lateral, lifeless, eyes fixed and pupils constricted. Body becomes stiff and the repierations are less than one per minute and can only be saved by the administration of warmed( room temp 80 degree ) Dexamethasone " the picture in the book shows a bottle that says for horses only", and to place the fish in original pond water in something like an ice chest with an aquarium heater to gradually raise the temp. A temp of 50 degrees should be sought as soon as possible, with slowwer climbs in temp being made over the next day or so. Hope this helps. Cold shock comes from a drop in temperature of twenty degrees or more especially if happens overnight from 50 to 30.


LAM
Koi Lover

Dec 21, 2007, 11:19 PM

Post #6 of 15 (1786 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi. Thanks for your reply. I have had 2 filtration systems. They are both off. In this climate they would super cool the bottom. Not all the fish are lying on side and the ones that are try to swim to me when they see me. They just end up on thier sides. I like the article of the book. Is the medication put in the water, or administered directly to fish somehow. I have no way to bring themin at this time but can try. I have a bubbler, and a surface heater. this was recommended to me by the local koi supplier. they haven't had this problem and didn't know what to tell me. What about the shock of bringing them inside. Do they come out of it as the water warms outside. yes, we did have a sharp dip in temps. thanks. Oh, can I use stresscoat for them if I can get them in? WIll this help thier survival at their temps.?
In Reply To
Lola


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Dec 21, 2007, 11:35 PM

Post #7 of 15 (1784 views)
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Re: [LAM] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
The medicine is ingected into the fish.

This is what I understand about cold shock from Eric's book. I'm in California so haven't had first hand experience. Fish can withstand temperatures into 35 degrees so long as their bodies have time to produce the right chemicals to slowly go into a hibernated state. I don't think that I would bring them inside without the medication and/or a proper control of the raising of the water temperature. If they are still responding and some seem fine then the others might still be able to adjust. I don't know if the amount of body fat could have helped the others or not, but it would seem that a layer of fat could have. Good luck and I hope that their are some other Koi lovers out there that can add to this.


LAM
Koi Lover

Dec 21, 2007, 11:48 PM

Post #8 of 15 (1783 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Thanks. Ihaven't heard of anyone else in this area with fish doing this. One koi owner said there is a parasite that becomes active when it gets cold. Caucci??? Not sure of the spelling because they told me on the phone. Unfortunately, I was told they can't be treated for that until spring, when water temps become warmer. Do you treat for diseases before winter? Or in spring? My fish all seemed very healthy and active.No flashing, or lethargy. It is just breaking my heart to see them this way. I know the koi owners understand. Koi are the special fish, IMO. Thanks.
Lola


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Dec 22, 2007, 12:48 AM

Post #9 of 15 (1778 views)
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Re: [LAM] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
I've found the symtom in diseases and laying over is usually caused by a bacteria infection brought on by Chilodonella, Costia, or Trichodina. Recomended salting and medication. I cannot find anything that says it is okay or not okay to salt in the winter time. I've also read that water in the low 50's allow some parasite to flourish while the Koi's immune system is sleeping. He recommends 62+ degrees or allow water to cool to 35 degrees.

You may be able to find some kind of information on salting in the winter somewhere here or elsewhere on the web. Salting will kill, as I understand, at least two of the three above mentioned parasites. And also as I understand the bacterial infections will remain dormant until spring also, at which time you will need to be prepared to handle that.


(This post was edited by brianhegney on Dec 22, 2007, 1:10 AM)


LAM
Koi Lover

Dec 22, 2007, 3:19 AM

Post #10 of 15 (1772 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
thanks Brian. I will have to get that book. I did read somewhere in my frantic search on the web, that salting in the cold winter isn't great. I am not sure if it has to do with oxygen or not. I am wondering if a very very mild salt would be ok. The bottom of the pond temp is 35F and the surface is 30F. I truly hope my koi survive.I can't stand the thought of losing them. It is always Murphys Law that we'd lose our favorites too! Frown You have been a great help.If you find anything else out, please share with me and board. Merry Christmas.
Lola


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Dec 22, 2007, 3:31 AM

Post #11 of 15 (1771 views)
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Re: [LAM] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Don't give up on them. I was first introduced to this site in October 2007 when I almost had our favorite Koi put down. She survived a swollen abodomen bacterial infection, brought on by low KH causing low PH.

Finally, I had found a local Koi Club and was able to get a Koi Health Advisor " KHA" whom helped straighten out the water. I cannot think of anything with those water temps except be ready for the spring. BRRRRRRRRRRRRR


LAM
Koi Lover

Dec 24, 2007, 6:57 AM

Post #12 of 15 (1717 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Ok Brian, here's what I have done so far. According to the biologist/ scientist here and the koi rep here, I have a couple of potential problems. My pond may have a carbon?? gas? problem, causing the fish balance to be thrown off, I have spread my 4 aerators over the bottom of the pond instead of leaving them suspended 1/4 way down in depth. This is supposed to help heavy gases move to be released. The cold didn't effect neighboring ponds so it has to be something else. Also, I dissolved about a cup of salt to add to the water. I was told, if it is the parasite, this will help. Also I was told it won't hurt the fish and should help them through the winter. I added slowly throughout the day. I had been checking the fish several times a day. Just can't leave it alone. Tomorrow I will go out and see if there are any improvements. Not sure if a cup is enough for 3,000 + gallons, but it can't hurt according to my sources. Thought I'd touch back with you. My koi lady also had the same book you have. I was very comfortable with that. As my PH is fine also. The temps here rose this weekend in the 50's. Hope this works. Keep your fingers crosssed. Lola
Lola


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Dec 24, 2007, 7:39 AM

Post #13 of 15 (1715 views)
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Re: [LAM] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Thank you for keeping me updated. Your pond sounds very similar to mine and it would take more than 20 pounds to kill any parasites, although parasites should not be a problem in that cold of water. Aereating from the bottom of the pond really makes sense to me. Good luck and let us know how things go for them.


LAM
Koi Lover

Dec 28, 2007, 12:55 AM

Post #14 of 15 (1636 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Hello Brian. Just a quick note. My koi pond supplier here told me I'd have to add the whole bag of salt to the pond to really treat. I had decided to dissolve 1 - 2 cups daily and add every day. I have it up to 3 - 4%. Not sure if it is really that high. It was very low yesterday and I added 2 cups of salt. Then today it jumped. I can't see most of the fish now as they are back in the cave. The ones that are out, will lay over, then respond to me, then go back to laying over. Some are not affected. They are the normal posturing for dormancy. They get a little more active during the warmer days. I hope I can leave this salt in over the winter. I can't imagine hooking up water and trying to change it out in the winter. Brrr! Poor babies. I just don't know what else to do to try to keep the prize koi from dying. I thought one was dead, it saw me walk to the edge and swam a little, then back over on it's side. If you have found anything else out or hear of anything, please share. Thanks. lola
Lola


LAM
Koi Lover

Jan 1, 2008, 5:09 AM

Post #15 of 15 (1571 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] cold water transfer [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi again. Here's what's new. I had a beautiful gin rin orange die. I hated that. I brought a couple of koi in in buckets of pond water. Put them in garage, then basement to let water temp raise gradually. They are now in a holding tub for the winter. The Sanke is stressing still, but has great color and i think is still trying to adjust to normal swimming again. They were all on thier sides like the orengi. Well, since they transfered and are doing ok, ( not great but alive) I brought in a couple more that were the most stressed. Everything I keep readiing, including koi for dummies, leads to the cold stress. It is COLD here. The pond stays between 30F and 35F. It is only the beginning of winter. I put meds in the water at 50F to keep the bad bugs from getting a grip since this is whenthey are so suseptible and thier immune systems are down. I figured I could watch them die in the pond, or try to save them inside and just keep them all winter. Next year, I am gonna fatten them up a little as I think the fatty bodies are doing better. I hope they make it. Pray for koi. I tested the water from pond and my tubs and the chemicals were so similar. Ph, Kh, Ni, Na, Gh. All in the clear. Lola
Lola

 
 
 



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