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green water problem

 




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fwpy
Novice

Oct 7, 2002, 1:46 PM

Post #1 of 63 (132167 views)
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Hi,

My name is fred wong and I am new to this forum. For the past week I have been following some of the posting and discussions in this forum and found members very helpful, encouraging and informative. I am facing a serious ‘green water’ problem and am rather desperate for a solution to combat this horrible scourge.

I have an outdoor concrete pond measuring about 10’ x 6’ x 2.5’ with a capacity of approximately 935 gallon (4,250 liter). The pond is served by an above ground 3-chambers filtration system. A submersible pump placed in a sump chamber connected to the pond feeds the filtration system. Another pump provide aeration to the pond. The first chamber consist of mainly corals of various sizes, second chamber with rough filter matt placed vertically and third chamber fitted with fine filter matt placed vertically followed by filter sponge placed horizontally. For 6 years this system has worked wonderfully. The water was clear and pH within normal level. The pond is well shaded with palms and an outdoor umbrella. I clean the filtration chambers regularly, each time partially washing the corals (in bags) and filter matt. The heavy wastes and dirty water was drained off. Each time about 20% of the pond water was replaced.

This work out fine all these years until some 3 months back when the pond water started turning green. I observed the water greening process for a week. At the end of the first week I decided to clean the filtration chambers and replace about 35% of the pond water. For 3 days the water appears okay, then started turning green and by the end of the 2nd week it was completely green again. I follow-up with chemical treatment thereafter with no avail. In the last 6 weeks, I have tested almost every available chemical and water conditioners in the market with negative results. The water is so horribly green now that I could hardly see the fishes in the pond. Apparently this green water has not affected the fishes yet. I met up with some enthusiast at a koi farm last weekend and was advised to replace my corals completely and start a fresh biological process of breeding a new batch of microorganisms all over again. I have bought new corals, fireballs and some new filter matt and intend to replace the coral and 50% of the water next weekend. I am also thinking of UV light sterilization and putting some water plants.

I need your advice and I hope forum members will be able to help me find a solution to this green water problem.

Thanks n Best Regards
fwpy


dttk
Veteran

Oct 7, 2002, 3:07 PM

Post #2 of 63 (132088 views)
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Hi Fred Smile, welcome to the forum. The green water problem gets worst when you clean the biofilter and make water change outs. UV clarifier is the fastest way to clear the problem. If you don't want to use it, I suggest you give some time for the bacteria which produces a certain phytoplankton-killing enzyme to grow so that the water will become clear again. This bacteria grows best if 1)you have a pump which could give a pondwater turnover rate of once per hour thru the biofilter. 2)you have sufficient oxygenation and biomedia to support it's growth. 3)you have a thick layer of algae on the walls of the pond. The bacteria loves to feed on this algae and releases the enzyme into the water as it is doing so. Other supportive measures would be to reduce nitrate levels with plants. Since your pond is sufficiently shaded, there shouldn't be any problem with sunlight. Changing too much water and cleaning too much of your biofilter will kill alot of these bacteria resulting in more phytoplankton and green water. So, instead of changing more water, just wait and try to achieve the above mentioned conditions for the good bacteria to grow. By the way, the green water is not bad for the koi if you make sure that ammonia and nitrite are not detectable and nitrates at a reasonable level like below 50ppm. Pls do not hesitate to ask more if you need further clarification. Happy koi keeping!Smile
Always friendly :)

(This post was edited by dttk on Oct 7, 2002, 3:09 PM)



fwpy
Novice

Oct 7, 2002, 6:00 PM

Post #3 of 63 (132071 views)
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Tks dttk.

I appreciate your good advice and will follow your suggestions to build up the living organisms in the biofilter.

I will find a pump of the right capacity to give the pond water a turnover rate as you suggested. Now, what about the aeration pump which do not feed the biofilter? Do I need to stop this pump temporarily?
To support the growth of bacteria, I am currently using ‘BIOZYME’ applying about 150ml per day for a week.
Unfortunately, the pond walls are bare of algae altogether due to heavy dosage of algaecide in the last few weeks. I have stop applying algaecide for more than a week now. However, there are heavy built up of string algae from the filtration chambers to the waterfalls area but no sign of algae in the pond walls and floor area.

The water pH at the moment is still within normal range and nitrate level quite balance.


Lynne USA
User

Oct 8, 2002, 1:24 AM

Post #4 of 63 (132061 views)
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Hi Fred Welcome,

My guess is that over a period of 6 years your koi have really grown allot, this results in more feeding and more waste to feed the algae.

I've given up trying to get rid of my green water Sly the koi love it and I can see their lips when they eat. Sly Pretty soon the weather will be cold and the algae will vanish in my pond and I will be able to see them again.

Right now I have 2 clear ponds with new filters that are still cycling and 2 that are green.

I didn't haven't had much luck with my UV's helping rid the pond of algea.


dttk
Veteran

Oct 8, 2002, 5:28 AM

Post #5 of 63 (132052 views)
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Fred Smile, 1)keep the aeration pump going. This would provide more oxygen to the water which is good for the bacteria. Do you have air supply(Hiblow) to your biofilter? This would help the good bacteria grow faster. 2)Yes, algaecide does more harm by removing the algae on the floor and walls of the pond which acts as food for the bacteria. 3)adding biozyme may not be helpful as this group of bacteria is not easily grown. Better to ensure that the 3 earlier conditions I mentioned in my previous post are fullfilled. 4) string algae cannot be removed by UV light. I'm afraid you'll have to manually remove them from the waterfall area and mechanical filter if they grow out of control. I have string algae in my waterfall and waterway too eventhough the water is crystal clear. My koi loves them as food. Don't despair, have patience and you'll be rewarded later. Cheers! Smile
Always friendly :)


johnson lee
Veteran

Oct 8, 2002, 5:30 AM

Post #6 of 63 (132052 views)
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Hello Fred

Warm welcome to the Forum! Cool Your pond sounds so much like mine. The dimensions are almost similar (except mine is around 4-5' deep). I too have a pump-fed filter system to 5 filter chambers above ground.

I do not have any bottom drains. Didn't know about this until I found this forum!Crazy

Dr Tan has advised you appropriately regarding the causes of green water and regular water change will not allow the algae and phytoplankton to establish. Of course the algaecide made things worse.

If your water parameters are good then you can withhold water changes until the water clears. What is your nitrate reading? Above 50ppm? You might also want to consider installing a TT filter. It works wonders with nitrites/nitrates and the side effect is also clearer water.

How many fishes have you got in your pond? Do you think your present filter is able to cope with ever growing kois?

I would also suggest you replace the corals in the 1 st chamber with black brushes. Brushes is a more effective mechanical filter and also easier to clean. You can put oyster shells or cockles in the last chamber for pH buffering purposes rather than as a mech. filter.

Just my opinion. Good luck an hope your green water clears soon.Smile

Johnson


fwpy
Novice

Oct 8, 2002, 12:03 PM

Post #7 of 63 (132032 views)
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Hi everyone,

Thanks for the sound advice.

Yes, I have 36 kois in the pond and they have definitely grown over the years. Their sizes range from 12” to 22”. Johnson has brought up a good point that my present filter may not be able to cope with the growing kois. I will definitely look into expanding or improving my present filtration system. Following Dr. Tan advice, I am feeling much more comfortable now even though I hate the sight of the green water every morning. I have also follow-up with an air supply system to the biofilter. A water reading taken today indicates pH is within level of 6.5 to 7.5 but nitrate has gone to an unusually high level of about 80ppm. What are the best remedies for a lower nitrate level? Meantime, I am withholding any water and filter change until the water clears. What is a suitable substitute for biozyme to help speed up bacteria growth in the biofilter?
fred


cwnchong
Koi Kichi

Oct 8, 2002, 12:05 PM

Post #8 of 63 (132030 views)
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Hi Fred,

Welcome to the forum. You are in good hands, Dr. Tan, Lynne & Johnson has given you their expert advices regarding your green water problem.

Dr. Tan, Lynne, Johnson,

Regarding to Fred's filter media replacement question, can the new filter media be put together with the existing media in the filter chambers to kick-start the new media before discarding the existing less effective media to aviod the new pond syndrome. Or there are other better methods to do this?


(This post was edited by cwnchong on Oct 8, 2002, 12:09 PM)


dttk
Veteran

Oct 8, 2002, 3:14 PM

Post #9 of 63 (132020 views)
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Fred Smile, the best way in your case to lower nitrates is by reducing feeding, removing as much dead algae and debris as possible and start introducing some water plants with established root systems into the pond away from the koi. If not, place them in the filter and leave the cover open. Sterilise the plants and roots with dilute solution of Patassium Permanganate(by a quick soak and rinse) before placing them into the pond. Building a TT filter is another option but it takes as long as 2-3 months to kick in. The best thing to do to speed up bacterial growth in biofilter is to add new biomedia. This will answer Chong's question about introducing suitable new media into existing filters before removing the unsuitable old ones.Smile. Johnson's earlier suggestion of removing coral from the first chamber is good as coral traps dirt easily and not easy to clean properly leading to skin problems for koi later. However, it would not be wise to do too much now since you don't want to further disturb the filter and cause further reduction in good bacteria. This is best done after the green water clears and the corals can be removed, cleaned thoroughly before reintroducing into the last chamber. If your biofilter still have some space, put in some new mattings and increase oxygenation. Increase your flow rate thru filter and hopefully things will improve. Continue monitoring nitrates and pH. I would prefer to keep the pH between 7.4 to 7.8. Low ph slows down bacterial growth. Best way to increase pH now is by adding baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) at a rate of abt 50g per ton. This will bring the pH up slowly. Do this weekly until your pH is between 7.4 to 7.8. Do let us know of your progress. Smile
Always friendly :)


fwpy
Novice

Oct 8, 2002, 5:19 PM

Post #10 of 63 (132011 views)
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Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the encouragement you have given me. I am now confident my green water will clear in due course.

Concerning new biomedia, the middle chamber of the filter tank still has some space and I will put some new matting into this chamber to help the growth of new bacteria.

By the way, how about removing one third of the coral in the first chamber and putting in its place new black brushes? In this way, I can gradually transfer all the coral from the first chamber to the last chamber.

I also have a spare fiberglass filter tank with 3 chambers, measuring 38” x 12” x 20”. Is it advisable to use this filter tank solely for water plants or should I add on as a new biomedia? Is pandan plant suitable for this purpose? I ask this question because I saw in one hotel where pandan plant was grown in the pond. Alternatively, I am also thinking of converting this fiberglass tank into a TT filter. It can be done with some modifications.

Fred


dttk
Veteran

Oct 9, 2002, 5:19 AM

Post #11 of 63 (131995 views)
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Fred, yes, it's a good idea to add some new mats to the biofilter. I guess there is no harm if you transfer the coral gradually from last to first chamber. Yes, good idea to make use of your spare FG tank as veg filter to remove nitrates. So divert some water from pump into the FG tank. Smile
Always friendly :)


Lynne USA
User

Oct 9, 2002, 7:37 PM

Post #12 of 63 (131965 views)
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When I put new matting into a filter, I always use one of the old ones to help get the cycle started. In my pond it seems to cut the filter cycle time in half. It will mature in 3 weeks instead of 6. Just my humble opinion. Lynne


dttk
Veteran

Oct 10, 2002, 5:33 AM

Post #13 of 63 (131955 views)
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Yes, I believe it does speed up the colonisation process. Wink
Always friendly :)


johnson lee
Veteran

Oct 10, 2002, 8:05 AM

Post #14 of 63 (131947 views)
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Hi Fred

Sorry for the delay in replying. Been outstation for a couple of days!

Anyway, you are in good hands so long as Dr Tan is around!Smile Lynne too has provided you sound advice. Isn't this a great forum?

As the good doctor has mentioned, you can gradually transfer all the corals to the last chamber and why not, if you have a spare filter, use it as your vege filter!

I would advise replacing the corals with oyster shells or cockles in the long run. Yes, replace the corals and change to black brushes. This is a better mech. filter.

Your pH of below 7 doesn't sound too good. Immediately increase the pH with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate as suggested by Dr Tan).

Best wishes to you.

Johnson


fwpy
Novice

Oct 10, 2002, 4:22 PM

Post #15 of 63 (131927 views)
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Hi everyone,

You guys are great. I am beginning to understand the working of a proper filtration system now.

I noticed some algae growth on the walls of the pond today. Can’t see the floor area, as water is too green at the moment. I started pH improvement with baking soda. The pH reading is about 7 today but nitrate level had increased to about 100ppm.
I will gradually transfer the coral out off the first chamber and blend it with cockleshells in the last chamber to start a new cycle.

I was toying with the spare FG tank the past 2 days. Based on Mark Richman and Khoobg’s postings in this forum (High Nitrate level – Try this, posted on 22 May) I got some idea of the working of a TT filter. Mark’s drawing of his TT system is an excellent guide. I did some modification to the FG tank and got it going today as a vege filter.
The first chamber is filled with filter mat laid vertically. Water plants (water lettuce) are placed in the 2nd, 3rd and last chambers. Water is feed through a ¾” pvc inlet to the first chamber. The outlet is a 2” pvc connected to T-shape pvc drilled with little holes (idea from Mark’s drawing). Water trickle down to an earthen jar of 2’ in height filled with bio-balls. These bio-balls sit on top of a plastic grating placed 6” above the floor. At the bottom of the jar is a 2” outlet that allows water to flow back to the pond. I have also cracked a few holes on the jar to allow more air supply to the bio-balls. Hopefully, this dual purpose of a vege and TT filter works. I am giving the system a two weeks trial and will report on the results.

The water readings taken this evening after the system was put into operations – pH about 7 and nitrate level about 100ppm. Please give your comments.
I will try to post a drawing of this system later. The trouble is that I am a hopeless artist and can’t even draw a strait line.


dttk
Veteran

Oct 12, 2002, 5:19 AM

Post #16 of 63 (131902 views)
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Fred, a nitrate level of 100ppm is a little worrying eventhough koi are able to tolerate a nitrate level of upto 200ppm. Your pH of 7 is so-so as long as it doesn't drop below 7 at certain times of the day. Do continue to add baking soda gradually until pH is 7.4-7.8. I suggest you reduce feeding immediately. Start introducing those long rooted water plants as mentioned earlier and remove the remaining coral from the first chamber and remove any debris there without making too much water change. This should bring your nitrate down to a more comfortable level for the koi. Smile
Always friendly :)


fwpy
Novice

Oct 13, 2002, 3:01 PM

Post #17 of 63 (131881 views)
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Hi Dr. Tan,
I have removed the remaining corals from the first chamber and replaced them with brushes, laid vertically. The second chamber is now filled with filter matts(old n new) and the last chamber has a combination of filter matts(old media) and cockle shells(new) & corals.
In addition, a second vege filter was introduced today. 2 vege filters running now.
Hv controlled feeding since 10 Oct.
The water readings for sat & sun remained unchange, pH about 7 and nitrate level above 100ppm. The fishes appeared okay except 2 which was observed popping out quite often in the last 2 days.
WinkFrownWinkFrownWink


dttk
Veteran

Oct 14, 2002, 4:36 AM

Post #18 of 63 (131867 views)
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Fred Smile, glad to know that most of the necessary steps to reduce nitrate have been implemented. You won't see a sudden drop in nitrate. Instead there will be a steady drop if you continue the above measures. As long as the koi are not too uncomfortable, it is ok to wait till is nitrate lowered. Don't worry abt reducing feeds because the phytoplankton itself is a source of food for the koi. Have you increased the flowrate thru your biofilter and added some air tubings to it? The pH of 7 is abit on the lower side. I suggest you increase it to 7.4-7.8 by adding baking soda. This would definitely help the biofilter to mature faster. Let's just wait and continue monitoring the water parameters. Smile
Always friendly :)


fwpy
Novice

Oct 15, 2002, 4:21 PM

Post #19 of 63 (131843 views)
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Dr. Tan,
Yes, I have increased the flow rate since last week. Put in a new pump with a flow rate of 12oo gph which is sufficient to maintain the pond turnover rate of one cycle in an hour. Have also installed 2 air supply lines to the 2nd n 3rd chambers and seem to be working fine.
There was a slight improvement in the water readings taken this evening, pH about 7.5 and nitrate level about 95ppm. Heavy rainfalls in the last 2 days and water appeared to lightened slightly. At least could see fishes swimming in the pond now. Wink


dttk
Veteran

Oct 16, 2002, 4:48 AM

Post #20 of 63 (131832 views)
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Fred Smile, I'm happy that things are turning out fine for you. You've taken all the right steps.Wink Continue with minimal feeding and monitor nitrate regularly. You should see further reduction in it's level as time goes by. pH at 7.5 is great. Rain water is actually slightly acidic and too much of it actually messes up the biofilter Unsure. But it's the rainy season. So just top up with baking soda whenever it drops to below 7.0 Smile. Do continue to update us and hope to see some pictures of your koi and pond when water clears up. Wink
Always friendly :)


andyng
User

Oct 16, 2002, 7:26 AM

Post #21 of 63 (131823 views)
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Hey Doc,

Need to get more info on rain water, you mention that it is slightly acidic???.

I was thinking of channeling water from my roof into the pond. I have a section of the roof which collection water from 2 section and a lot of water drops down on to the floor next to the pond. I believe if it rain for about an hour it would fill up one quater the pond. Is that a good idea.

Andy Ng.


dttk
Veteran

Oct 16, 2002, 8:27 AM

Post #22 of 63 (131820 views)
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Andy Smile, not a good idea to use run-offs from the roof or gutter as the water is very polluted and not safe for koi. Eventhough there's plenty of rain nowadays and we may try to save water, use it for other purposes other than adding to your pond! Smile
Always friendly :)


SMW1
Veteran

Oct 16, 2002, 11:46 AM

Post #23 of 63 (131808 views)
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Not only does the rain water have a lower PH than any koi pond, if you channel it from any unclean surface like your roof or gutting it can also introiduce a whole host of parasites and toxins into your pond.

I would reccomend that this is never done by anyone who cares about their koi. It's far too risky.

Stuart


johnson lee
Veteran

Oct 17, 2002, 8:47 AM

Post #24 of 63 (131786 views)
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I agree with Dr Tan and Stuart regarding the no no of using rain water. I recall someone on this forum who had his pond located near the edge of the roof and every time it rains, it messes up his pH and causes problems to his kois.

Better be safe than sorry.

Johnson


fwpy
Novice

Oct 21, 2002, 7:19 PM

Post #25 of 63 (131729 views)
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Hi Sifus,

Just to keep all of you posted of development this end. Not much improvement so far becos the filter is not ready to rock yet. Water still very green n water para remained unchanged over the past few days, pH abt 7.5, nitrate level abt 95ppm n ammonia abt 0.2. I am continueing with min feeding n maintaining pH at this level with baking soda. Nitrate level not dropping. The kois seem to be in good condition n the water plants in the vege filter are thriving.

Over the weekend, the remaining corals in the first chamber was removed n replaced with brushes. This chamber now function as a mech filter. I've also installed a temp pvc pipe to divert some water from the waterfall to the pond via a clay pot filled with cockle n sea shells. Hope this experiment will help to stabilisied the pH.
I observed a few fish flashing. Is is alright at this stage to do some salting to the pond? Pls advice.


johnson lee
Veteran

Oct 22, 2002, 5:32 AM

Post #26 of 63 (62953 views)
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Hi Fred

I am not so worried about high nitrates of 95ppm at the moment. Kois can tolerate up to 200ppm if necessary. But the ammonia of 0.2ppm is high. You have to contain this because ammonia burns the kois' gills and damage is severe.

You will have to continue with regular water change of 10-20% every few days to dilute the ammonia. You can add salt if you want but no more than 0.1% because otherwise your plants will start to die.

Hopefully with a little more time and patience, the filter will settle down and water parameters will remain constant and green water will start to disappear too.

Keep us informed OK?

Johnson


dttk
Veteran

Oct 22, 2002, 6:31 AM

Post #27 of 63 (62951 views)
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Fred Smile, thanks for the update. So the nitrate is still high. I'm more worried about the ammonia. Looks like the good bugs are not thriving yet. It's alright to add some cockle and shells but make sure that they have been cleaned thoroughly before using as bits of flesh tends to stick to the inside of the cockle shell and will rot and foul up the water easily. Good also to know that the corals have been replaced with brushes. Did you flush the chambers to remove any excess debris as this can sometimes be the cause of the high ammonia and nitrates. Again I would like to stress that feeding should be minimum and maximum aeration to the biofilter is important. If flashing is not too frequent, just observe and wait. Yes, salt can be added at a rate of 1kg per ton or 1000L of water to make 0.1% salinity. Too much salt will kill the water plants. Let's just concentrate on reducing ammonia to zero and nitrate to <50ppm. The plants will help to do that but care should be taken to maintain the plants properly as decaying roots and leaves also increases the nitrate level. Cheers!Smile
Always friendly :)


fwpy
Novice

Oct 22, 2002, 6:32 PM

Post #28 of 63 (62939 views)
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Hi Sifus,

Thanks for the quick response. Water para seem to have deteriorated. Readings taken this evening (3 hours after rain stopped) are as flws;
pH about 7.8, nitrate level above 100 ppm, nitrite about 0.1 mg/ltr and ammonia about 0.2 mg/ltr. Have seen some heavy rainfalls in the past few days n after each downpour, the pond level rises to the brink. As such, did not attempt any water change yet. Intend to do 20% water change first thing in the morning.

No, I did not flush the chamber after removing the corals becos I was afraid to disturb the good bugs that was building up in the biofilters.
Yes, the shells were cleaned thoroughly before using. I have 2 air supply lines to the bio-chambers from a Hiblow air pump that run 24hrs. Will monitor the flashings n leave salting to a later date.


fwpy
Novice

Nov 3, 2002, 1:24 PM

Post #29 of 63 (62911 views)
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Hi Sifus,
Sorry I could not update all of you earlier as my computer suffered a virus attacked, subsequently hard drive crashed n cud not access internet until the damaged drive is replaced n new programs installed.

Anyway, here is an update of my green water problem. The good good newsSly LaughCrazyis that the water is getting clearer n clearer now.WinkSmileLaugh Look like the good bugs in the bio-chambers are rocking. The horrible green scourge is almost gone n for the first time in over 4 months, cud see all the lovely kois even at the bottom of the pondSlyCrazyCoolLaugh.Whole family are really excited to see the kois swimming againCrazyCrazyLaugh. Reckon water shud get crystal clear over the next few days.

Over the last 10 days, I did 3 water changes of 10% each change. Did not attempt more than 30% change as there was constant rainfall throughout the week. In addition, the waste in the chambers was drained off every other day n the mech-chamber was flushed twice. The water plants are flourishing, infact had outgrown the fg tank. Feeding was limited to one feed every other day.

The water readings had gradually improved n readings taken this evening were; pH abt 8, nitrate abt 90ppm, nitrite n ammonia abt 0.1.(pH has remained quite constant in the last 10 days).Will continue with controlled feeding n monitoring of water para n try bring down nitrate, nitrite n ammonia to lower levels. When water para returned to normal, will do a salting of 0.1%. Am I on the right track?

Really appreciates all the help n advises that all you SIFUS has given me. Thanks once again Dr. Tan, Johnson Lee, Lynne, cwnchong, SMW1, andyng n all those who have help in solving my GW problem.


johnson lee
Veteran

Nov 5, 2002, 5:21 AM

Post #30 of 63 (62896 views)
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Hi FRed

I too share your joy of knowing that your pond is slowly clearing up!Smile That is the best thing to happen to a new koi kepper doesn't it? Waking up one morning and see the water is clear and you can see right to the bottom!!Smile Good for you.

Anyway, there are still traces of ammonia and nitrites, so still got to monitor these carefully until they read 0. Adding salt now to 0.1% is advisable to reduce the ammonia poisoning. Test water for this 2 at least once every 2 days for now. Feeding should still be kept to a minimal until readings are 0.

best wishes to you!Laugh

Johnson


dttk
Veteran

Nov 5, 2002, 5:49 AM

Post #31 of 63 (62895 views)
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Fred, I too am very happy to know that things are getting better for you. Infact, I expected good news when I saw the many smilies you posted with your message even before reading it! Yes, looks like you're on the right track. Patience and prudence is the key. As mentioned by Johnson, continue present measures till ammonia and nitrite are undetectable. Making a 0.1% salinity will not harm the plants much and should help to reduce toxic effects of nitrite. The nitrates at 90ppm is not too bad and will drop further if feeding is controlled and debris removed from mechanical filter and vege filter. Thanks for the update!Smile
Always friendly :)


fwpy
Novice

Nov 25, 2002, 2:02 PM

Post #32 of 63 (62851 views)
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Hi Sifus,

WinkWinkJust an update of the amazing changes over the last 3 weeks. The green water has dissapear totally.
SlyTongueGood good news!! my pond water is crystal clear now. It turned crystal clear 3 days ago. Looks like the good bugs are finally thriving now.
Following your instructions, here was what I did in the past 3 weeks.

1. Flushed the mechanical chambers twice to remove any excess debris in this chamber. Left the bio-chambers alone.

2. Made 2 water changes of 15% each. Add salt 3 times of 0.1% each time. Fishes stop flashing now.

3. Clean up the fg filter once. Add some new bio-medias to old ones.

4. Changed water in the veg filter twice to remove excess debris, rotting roots n leaves. There was lots of red worms too.

5. Gradually increased feeding to once per day from once every alternate day.

The was also some improvment in the water para. Ammonia n nitrite readings is 0 now. Readings taken this evening were;

pH - abt 8 (pH is quite stable throughout).
Nitrate - about 90 ppm.

The nitrate level is still high. Though I have a TT filter running for 5 weeks now, it appears that it is not kicking yet. What else can I do to help bring the nitrate level down?

Following every stage of the experts instructions of this forum certainly paid off for me in the end.WinkTongueSly. Thank you!!!


dttk
Veteran

Nov 26, 2002, 3:46 AM

Post #33 of 63 (62838 views)
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Fred, very happy to know that things are getting better and better for you!Smile The main credit goes to you for having the patience to follow our advice. Alot of others would have given up and tried other methods by now. Nitrates still at 90ppm? This does not cause any harm to the koi but the source of the nitrate must be from the koi waste and the rotting plants. It is good that you have done some cleaning of the veg filter and regular flushing of mechanical chamber. Are you over stocked? If so, this should explain the persistant high nitrates. Your TT if built correctly may not kick in yet for another 3-7 weeks. The TT and the veg filters will help to reduce your nitrates now. As usual be careful not to overfeed as nitrates will climb. Remember to change 10% water every week. Maintaining salinity at 0.1% is fine if the plants are able to tolerate it. Keep up the good work! Thanks for the update. Sly
Always friendly :)


johnson lee
Veteran

Nov 26, 2002, 6:31 AM

Post #34 of 63 (62835 views)
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Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Fred

We are happy that you are happy!Wink You have been patient and did all the right things.

You still need to watch the feeding for now. Overfeeding could overload your filter. You can feed daily but not too much. Always remember to test for ammonia and nitrites regularly until you are confident that everything has stabilise.

Reduce nitrates at the moment with weekly water change of 10%. Wait till the TT filter kicks in and you'll have lower nitrate reading soon. Cheers!

Johnson


mattloui
User

Nov 26, 2002, 7:13 AM

Post #35 of 63 (62831 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

See i told you, you guys are doing a great service to the koi world and in many respects you are also doing the nation a service- Malaysian BOLEH-to obtain clear water and healthy kois. Many koi kakis love what you doing-pl keep up the good work.
CHEERS


wan
User

Nov 27, 2002, 6:04 AM

Post #36 of 63 (62795 views)
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Re: [johnson lee] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Johnson,

There is a product called S 1 - green liquid , sort of anti parasite, - being sold at aquarium shops. Do u happen to know what is it actually ?
Some shops say its malachite green , some say its formalin. I am unsure and a bit concern as the recommended dosage appears to be very liberal. It is suggested that I use one whole bottle for my 9460 gallons pond.
Thanks.
WAN


johnson lee
Veteran

Nov 27, 2002, 8:27 AM

Post #37 of 63 (62784 views)
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Re: [wan] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi wan

I'm not sure what S1 is but if the ingredients contain either formalin or malachite green, then any overdose will kill your kois and it will also knock out your filter as well.

Be careful when buying these "kill all" chemicals, always check the label for the main ingredients.

My opinion is to use salt as a first option. Salt is virtually harmless and also kills many harmful bugs in the pond.

Cheers!
Johnson


Betsy
New User

May 11, 2003, 8:28 PM

Post #38 of 63 (62591 views)
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Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

I wish green water was my problem but I have brown mucky water.. It started out green and has turned to a lovely shade of brown. HELP, I built this pond last year , it is about thirty five hundred gallons.. The man who built it lined the whole thing with river rock and now I have heard that is the problem and that we should remove all of the rocks... Can you tell me if this is true or what I can do to get this pond cleaned up.. I have a few small Koi in it and that is all.... Have you ever heard of lining a whole pond with river rock? We just hooked up one of the UV fliters and are not seeing much help from it... The pond is a black rubber liner, I do not know the real name of it... Thanks for any help you can give...Betsy


dttk
Veteran

May 12, 2003, 8:41 AM

Post #39 of 63 (62568 views)
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Re: [Betsy] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Betsy, so you have brown water instead of green water. How are the water parameters? Do you mean that the exposed edges of the liner is covered by river rocks? Is there a bottom drain in the pond? Try to remove as much debris as possible from the pond floor and filter without disturbing the biomedia too much. Top up with fresh dechlorinated water. We need to know the water parameters before we could suggest ways to solve the problem. Also pls let us know abt your filtration system. Hope to hear from you soon. Cheers! Smile
Always friendly :)


rogermoo
Koi Kichi

May 12, 2003, 9:04 PM

Post #40 of 63 (62551 views)
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13.05.03,

Hi Johnson Lee,

Sorry for me asking, how do you do your 5 filter chambers above ground? You meant the 5 chambers are at floor level? I am asking because I might need more filter chambers for my fish pond. The present one don't seem to do its job thoroughly as it is only about 10% of the pond size. Please advise cos I am new to koi breeding ( a beginner)

Thanks

Rogermoo


BirdzWord
Novice

Jul 19, 2003, 6:44 AM

Post #41 of 63 (62198 views)
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Re: [fwpy] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello everyone----To everyone with this problem, I symphathize with you. I found that AlgeaFix workss great, sometimes it takes alot of treatments but it really clears it up good, it ceared my water andstringy algea (that we don't want) but I still have the healthy fish algea ( that we do want) and it is safe for both fish and plants. Good luck all, Roberta


fwpy
Novice

Jul 21, 2003, 12:50 PM

Post #42 of 63 (62178 views)
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Re: [Betsy] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Betsy,

Don't despair, you are in good hands with Dr. Tan n other veterans around. Before long, your green water problems will be solved. I lived with this nightmare for months before I found this forum. I followed their advice diligently n within 2 months I was amazed to see clear water in my pond.

To start with, it is important that you have the proper bio-filter system to support your pond. A good bio-filter with the correct bio-media in its chambers are necessary for good bacteria to grow.

You need to provide the experts here with all the info on your pond bio-filtration system, pump flow rates, water parameters, etc and Dr. Tan n other veteran here will be able to come out with the right solutions to slove your GW problem.

Be patience, follow their instructions n before long, your nightmare will be over.

Fred


andyng
User

Jul 21, 2003, 6:44 PM

Post #43 of 63 (62172 views)
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Re: [fwpy] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said....... kudo to our great Dr. Tan aka DTTK.

Andy Ng


dttk
Veteran

Jul 21, 2003, 9:40 PM

Post #44 of 63 (62167 views)
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Fred Smile, good to see you online again! Hope things are well with you. Thanks for the kind words but I'm glad we're getting lots of help from more experienced keepers like Bran, Douglezzz and Aussie Koi too Sly. Of course HWong, Andy, Matt, Chong and others are still around to lend a helping hand. I must say I'm learning alot from them too Smile. We all just try our best to impart the correct knowledge to others and hope that it'll continue to benefit keepers like you. Regards Wink.
Always friendly :)


dttk
Veteran

Jul 21, 2003, 9:47 PM

Post #45 of 63 (62165 views)
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Re: [andyng] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Andy Sly, whatlah...gotta give credits to you and the others who are always around to help too. See, even Fred is doing his part now by contributing his experiences in tackling green water. Kudos to all of you! Wink
Always friendly :)


fwpy
Novice

Jul 23, 2003, 3:30 PM

Post #46 of 63 (62135 views)
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Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the encouraging words. Really learning a lot on koi keeping from this forum n enjoying every bit of it. Hope to contribute to this forum from time to time. Cheers.

Fred


fff
User

Aug 4, 2003, 7:17 AM

Post #47 of 63 (62050 views)
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Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Can anyone recommend any floating/submerged plants?
Please provide the pics if possible as well.

Also advise on building of a TT filter, with a actual pic will be appreciated.

Anywhere i can get water test kit in SG?


kth
Novice

Aug 11, 2003, 4:40 PM

Post #48 of 63 (62001 views)
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Re: [fff] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi fff, can't help with the plants excepting for water lettuce which a friend gave me a few days ago.
The water test kits are available from a number of outlets in Singapore (see Singapore Koi Club website for dealers). I got the TetraTest kits from AquaPet in Bt Timah Plaza, at B1 level.
TH


dttk
Veteran

Aug 25, 2003, 8:18 AM

Post #49 of 63 (61942 views)
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Re: [fff] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, some plants that are commonly used in this region are the different varieties of Yam, Pandan and "Money" plant. The former two could be held in place by bricks/rocks placed in water to support the stem or roots. As for the latter, just dump it in water and they will grow easily. For a picture of these plants just go to my website at www.angelfire.com/home/drttk . I place these plants in the waterway or veg filter away from the koi. Smile
Always friendly :)


koifun
Veteran


Aug 25, 2003, 1:47 PM

Post #50 of 63 (61932 views)
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Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi, Doc

I can see that u are making it back to the forum again after a brief period of disappearingCool.

What a beautiful updated website with clear water and happy kois. I like your showa and kohakus u haveCoolWink? Thanks. I believe most of us here enjoy seeing more pictures of the living jewels than just wordings.




  • "Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"
  • CoolSmileTongueSmile


    dttk
    Veteran

    Aug 26, 2003, 7:07 AM

    Post #51 of 63 (51175 views)
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    Re: [koifun] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Koifun Smile, thanks for visiting the site and the encouraging words. Yes, I'm taking a short break from the forum. Reason being I'm in the process of setting up a new pc. Will join you wonderful guys again soon. Take care. Sly
    Always friendly :)


    andyng
    User

    Aug 26, 2003, 6:35 PM

    Post #52 of 63 (51160 views)
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    Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post


    In Reply To
    Koifun Smile, thanks for visiting the site and the encouraging words. Yes, I'm taking a short break from the forum. Reason being I'm in the process of setting up a new pc. Will join you wonderful guys again soon. Take care. Sly



    WOW... Dr. Tan upgrading his hardware to serve us better... BRAVO DOC just don't spend too much time on those porn site since the download speed is much faster... a lot of worm and virus out there. No bio filter can filter these dirty site.

    Andy Ng


    dttk
    Veteran

    Aug 27, 2003, 5:39 AM

    Post #53 of 63 (51158 views)
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    Re: [andyng] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Andy Laugh, I'm way pass the porn-surfin days Wink. Nowadays I go for streaming videos (news, music and movies-cinema type). Frankly the state of some music videos nowadays is already like the X-rated movies...if ya know what I mean. Blush Yes, the threat of a new virus even more powerful than sobig is really frightening Unsure. Regards.
    Always friendly :)


    koifun
    Veteran


    Aug 27, 2003, 7:21 AM

    Post #54 of 63 (51154 views)
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    Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    hahahaCool!!! Interesting exchange.




  • "Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. - Euripides"
  • CoolSmileTongueSmile


    fff
    User

    Aug 28, 2003, 5:01 AM

    Post #55 of 63 (51142 views)
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    Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Does Coral grow bacteria?
    Is K1 material good?
    May I know where can I get it in SG


    dttk
    Veteran

    Aug 28, 2003, 8:45 AM

    Post #56 of 63 (51136 views)
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    Re: [fff] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Yes, coral does grow good bacteria but I'd advice against using it as biomedia because it clogs up easily creating an anaerobic environment for bad bacterial growth. It is best to use it as a pH buffer by keeping it in the chamber with cleanest water.

    I do not have any experience with K1 or kaldness. Patrick (from S'pore) is using it. Pls search his posts and contact him via the forum reply function. Smile
    Always friendly :)


    ginkon
    New User

    Apr 5, 2007, 9:10 PM

    Post #57 of 63 (44366 views)
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    Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Greetings from the land of sand and oil. I have a pond approximately 2400 gal and after the first two years it started giving me an algae bloom every spring. I tried algae floculators and it seemd to work OK, but was not completely successful in clearing the green stuff. I don't think it is any way harmful to the fish - you just can't see them. Last spring I went online and met a couple that own a business in OK (?) and David recommended putting a UV light in my filtration flow line. He said it would clear the water up within two weeks. He was wrong - it took three! But, boy did it clear it up and it has stayed clear and this spring - no algae bloom, yet. Maybe it will be later, but I think I'm done worrying about it. It kills the tiny algae and the bacteria that can hurt the fish, too. It was not cheap, but the water is crystal clear and I get compliments on the clarity. The fish look great! The couple are David and Cammie at koilane.com. Tell them I said 'Hi'. Cheers, Rick.


    dttk
    Veteran

    Apr 6, 2007, 5:13 AM

    Post #58 of 63 (44359 views)
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    Re: [ginkon] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Thanks for sharing your experience Smile. I'm sure others with the same problem will benefit from it. Regards. Wink
    Always friendly :)


    ginkon
    New User

    Apr 6, 2007, 3:42 PM

    Post #59 of 63 (44345 views)
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    Re: [dttk] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Apparently I passed on the wrong URL for David and Cammie. I am trying to get their real web address and will post it as soon as I have it. Cheers


    mac&me
    New User

    Aug 30, 2007, 11:35 PM

    Post #60 of 63 (42373 views)
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    Re: [ginkon] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    We are having a huge problem with green water. The pond is 2 yrs old, never green water before. I know I caused the problem, by introducing a plant from a garden center onto my ledge of the pond. When I put it into the water without removing the soil, all kinds of debris came loose, perlite, vermiculite, etc. I'm sure there was fertilizer as well. In addition, our local pond place told me to plant my water forget me nots, and we used some soil, and added time release fertilizer. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Now to correct it.
    Our pond is 12 x 10, 2 1/2' deep. We have one koi, about 12" long, several gold fish, and it appears (although we can't see clearly) that we have many goldfish babies. (We lost our other large koi to a heron, and two smaller comets as well, probably due to spawning behavior.) We have just added three baby koi, about 3'' long. These are the water test #'s. ph 7.6 high range ph 7.4 nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia are 0ppm. The pond is filtered by a biofilter with a waterfall. (Savio). the pump pushes 5500 gph.


    larz1
    Veteran


    Sep 2, 2007, 11:23 PM

    Post #61 of 63 (42304 views)
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    Re: [mac&me] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Well, to start with... yank the plants back out of the pond. Otherwise you'll just continue to feed the problem and everything else you do will be a waste of time. Also, never ever ever listen to water garden suppliers when they tell you what is good for Koi ponds. They know plenty about plant puddles. They know just enough about Koi to be dangerousMad.
    I'm not a fan of pond plants, but my wife loves them so I've had to learn to live with it...Unsure It will mean extra work to keep your water from going green though. If you absolutely must have them, re-pot any that require soil in an inert medium like pea gravel or coarse sand, no fertilizer of any kind.
    Once you have removed the food source for the algae, you may be able to clear the green water with Hydrogen Peroxide. Your pond contains roughly 2200 gallons, so a dosage of 1 quart of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide MIGHT help clear things up once you remove the nutrient source. If not, you'll need to take other actions.
    One water test you didn't post is Kh. It would be a good idea to test that as well, as low Kh levels will make it difficult to keep the algae at bay and your filtration healthy.
    BTW, the guys and gals down at the garden center will probably want to sell you AlgaeFix, or something similar. It kills algae with Copper, which is also really good at killing Koi and Goldfish if your dosage is just a tiny bit off.


    mac&me
    New User

    Sep 2, 2007, 11:31 PM

    Post #62 of 63 (42302 views)
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    Re: [larz1] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Will the peroxide affect the bacteria that we put in? We use Microbe Lift PL.


    larz1
    Veteran


    Sep 4, 2007, 6:18 PM

    Post #63 of 63 (42245 views)
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    Re: [mac&me] green water problem [In reply to] Can't Post

    Not unless you dump it straight on the biomedia. I'd pour it in at the waterfall area so it mixes well and gets diluted quickly. HP quickly breaks down into Oxygen and Water as it reacts with the algae or any other organics it may come into contact with. You just don't want to dump it right on top of your fish as it could burn their gills or fade colors if directly applied in its concentrated form.

     
     



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