Home  


  Main Index MAIN
INDEX
Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN

Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
help my pond is green and pH 9.3

 






 


ijoke
Koi Lover

Nov 7, 2006, 8:33 PM

Post #1 of 19 (2967 views)
Shortcut
help my pond is green and pH 9.3 Can't Post

greeting..

my pond is 10m x 5m x 0.5m

koi about 45 - big and medium size

the filter is damn small and can't cope.. above type - fibre tank small size - 3 partition

lighting - half direct sunlight half covered

current condition are very green and pH=9.3

question :
[1] my assumption : green is because inadequate bio / mechanical / uv filtration.. is it? is there other way to controll this?
[2] how to controll pH level if it is alkaline.. like mine 9.3.. and how if it is acid..? what to add?


tq for any help..
:)


koiguyoz
Member


Nov 7, 2006, 11:17 PM

Post #2 of 19 (2957 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ijoke] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Question :

[1] my assumption : green is because inadequate bio / mechanical / uv filtration.. is it? is there other way to controll this?

UV lights cannot be considered a filter. It is a device that uses light in the ultraviolet frequency range to destroy the cells that make up the phytoplankton that causes the green water.

Mechanically it is harder to filter out green water, basically the phytoplankton because it is around 5 microns and smaller in size. I have been there done that! Didn't work.

You therefore are likely to have inadequate biological filtration. That is, there isn't enough surface area on your biomedia to house enough good bacteria like nitrosomonas and nitrospira (nitrogen fixing bacteria) to consume the nitrites, ammonia and excess nutrients that cause the green water.

Controlling the green water will therefore involve increasing the surface area of your biomedia (i.e. buy more biomedia and install it into a larger container and feed it with a larger water pump).

For a great way to combat green water, research on www.koiphen.com 's forum on "trickle towers".

[2] how to controll pH level if it is alkaline.. like mine 9.3.. and how if it is acid..? what to add?

Don't add anything. It is possible that a working filter will consume some of the carbonates and lower PH naturally. Controlling and thus shifting PH levels can be dangerous to the koi who won't tolerate large changes in PH when you add chemicals to control the PH level.


ijoke
Koi Lover

Nov 8, 2006, 1:57 AM

Post #3 of 19 (2954 views)
Shortcut
Re: [koiguyoz] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

thank you very much koiguyoz.. my biomedia is indeed insufficient..

hehe my friend tell me to add sulfuric acid to controll it.. hehe.. he even suggest to squeeze some lime into the pond.. SlyTongue


Koi38
Senior Member


Nov 8, 2006, 6:56 AM

Post #4 of 19 (2945 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ijoke] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

You can use bicarbonate soda or sodium bicarbonate(same stuff from groceries stores) to lower your PH. This chem has a 8.5 neutral zone. If you're to lower your ph, pls lower it slowly(in a few days period) not in one dayWink

Like the Ben said, you do need to increase your filtration system or reduce your stocking levelSmile

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/


nathancser
Koi Lover

Dec 30, 2006, 9:51 AM

Post #5 of 19 (2703 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Koi38] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

my pond is about 20 by 10 feet and has green water... i have a skimmer set up with 2 biomedia filters and a post where the UV light was seperates them and another one in the waterfall. I am considering my options:
do lilly pads help combat green water?
How could I increase the amount of filters without replacing my existing set up which is built into my pond?
I'm trying to do this with a low budget.


koiguyoz
Member


Dec 30, 2006, 12:08 PM

Post #6 of 19 (2692 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nathancser] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Nathan,

I have read through your posts in the past. You had wanted to do a full drain of the pond.

Did you completely drain and refill the pond?
If you did and you cleaned the biomedia in the process you would be in a "new pond syndrome" again.

Increasing filtration
Increasing the amount of filtration (in this case, increasing the efficiency of the biological media) can be done by first telling us the current biomedia used and whether that media is submerged or run in a trickle down fashion.

The UV light
Ensure the glass between the UV light and the place where the water goes through is thoroughly clean. How old is the UV bulb. Some recommendations are to change the bulb every 6 months when the UV light is used full time.

Other ideas
Check out a range of "trickle towers (TT)" on the forums at www.koiphen.com and www.koivet.com . I'd recommend the use of bioballs with a small amount of lava rocks in the base for the TT media.


nathancser
Koi Lover

Dec 30, 2006, 1:37 PM

Post #7 of 19 (2683 views)
Shortcut
Re: [koiguyoz] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

well the pond looked great for a while clear and everything but then about a month later it looked bad. so how would i know if it was new pond syndrome?

the filters are the foam pads and are vertically placed since it is a leaf skimmer set up
THis is it: http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/4786/cid/1378

the UV light has been out for a while now but i didn't change it because in another section of the forum people said the UV lights only mask the fact that there is still algae in the pond


koiguyoz
Member


Dec 30, 2006, 2:05 PM

Post #8 of 19 (2679 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nathancser] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

New pond syndrome is characterised by cycles of nitrite and ammonia spikes (when you have monitored the pond water using test kits).

Otherwise it is characterised by the water continuously getting cloudier as the days past by until the water goes completely green. Often this begins after a large amount of fresh water has been used to fill in the pond (+50%), when the filter has been completely cleaned out or completely replaced.

It is true that the use of a UV light with a small undersized filter will mask the quality of the water overall. This has been highlighted with your green water coming about.

The skimmer appears very small in size (in terms of being able to hold substantial biomedia). I am very sure the pads are simply not enough for your pond.

Do you have an output pipe that you can use?

Take a photo, or draw a diagram to show us how your pond is filtered, where the water pump is, skimmer etcs. I understand you also have a waterfall filter. Note any empty spaces around the pond that could accomodate a larger sized filter.

In the meantime I think it might be possible to install bags of lava rock/ceramic rings inside your skimmers to help increase biomedia surface area.


nathancser
Koi Lover

Dec 30, 2006, 3:13 PM

Post #9 of 19 (2674 views)
Shortcut
Re: [koiguyoz] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

here's a diagram



koiguyoz
Member


Dec 31, 2006, 12:01 PM

Post #10 of 19 (2661 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nathancser] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Taking a look at the skimmer (supplied in the webpage link), it appears to be a unit where you can mount to a liner. Is this correct?

If the comment is not correct, how is the skimmer mounted in the pond?


Can the waterfall be remounted near the open space? Because if you can, you will find that you will be able to accomodate at least a sizeable home made filter or in the alternative several pressurised canisters from the pump inside the skimmer to the canisters which lead to the waterfall.

I have read that you have problem with debris inside the pond itself. How bad is this situation?

Because the skimmer only removes debris from the top parts of the pond, debris would be found inside the pond. Is this correct?

You will find the use of a solids handling subermersible pump beneficial in removing debris and scum from the pond at the bottom.


nathancser
Koi Lover

Dec 31, 2006, 1:19 PM

Post #11 of 19 (2658 views)
Shortcut
Re: [koiguyoz] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not have a liner... the skimmer appears to be glued and bolted in place with sealant around the outside

the waterfall is actually on an island (the circle around the waterfall)... the island has a tree on it which has bamboo type leaves

recently even though we had some winds, it seems that there is less debris in the pond

i'm not sure what you are talking about with the canisters... inside the skimmer there is a submersed pump to push the water into the waterfall

do lilly pads help the situation?


koiguyoz
Member


Jan 1, 2007, 2:23 PM

Post #12 of 19 (2646 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nathancser] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

No lily pads are extremely unlikely to help control green water. Excess nutrients and not sunshine are normally the cause of the green water.

The use of barley straws will aid in destroying the green water but it is a temporary solution to a much bigger issue.

Here is a link to a pressurised filter:
http://www.rockaroundtheblock.com.au/product.asp?pID=107&cID=92

Looking towards the top left hand corner you can see the installation of a pressurised canister filter in the pond. Seeing as both skimmer and waterfall are set in place, if you can access the pipe that sends the water from the pump to the fall, you'll have the possibility of adding additional filtration to get rid of your green water problem (as a result of increasing the area for good bacteria which consume nutrients that cause the green water).

I've been through green water, and I've looked at many solutions. Because koi grow really large and produce plenty of poop, increasing biofiltration will help in the future and beyond. Non biological filter approaches often do not work, such as huge water changes, algae cure chemicals (which kill the algae, but as a result increase the organic load in the pond because you've killed the algae - and things that decompose can increase ammonia), barley straw etc. Often most are time consuming, pointless wastes of money that should have been directed to building a larger biofilter.

Have fun!

Regards,

Aquaman




nathancser
Koi Lover

Jan 1, 2007, 3:59 PM

Post #13 of 19 (2644 views)
Shortcut
Re: [koiguyoz] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

thank you for the idea... i can easily add another filter in between the falls and skimmer

i was thinking of doing a homemade one: a bucket and the hose goes into the bottom the water goes through a sponge filter and maybe bio balls after and then is sucked up by an identical pump that is used in the skimmer

also is having a too small pump a factor? i know for a fact there isn't enough filtration but should i also consider a bigger pump?


koiguyoz
Member


Jan 2, 2007, 11:25 AM

Post #14 of 19 (2625 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nathancser] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Normally you want to circulate the complete volume of your pond water through the filter once per hour.

Normally the amount of water a pump can move up above the pond surface is rated at 0 metres above the surface. The higher the water must be moved, the less will be moved by the water pump. Consider this issue when purchasing your next pump.

I think the problem with using another pump in your home made filter is that, if one of the two pump fails/shuts down etc, then you might be pumping a dry container (when the pump is in the home made filter) or you would end up pumping the pond dry (if the pump stops working in the home made filter container and the skimmer pump keeps on going).


nathancser
Koi Lover

Jan 2, 2007, 1:18 PM

Post #15 of 19 (2624 views)
Shortcut
Re: [koiguyoz] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

how good are bioballs? I was thinking of adding a big bag full onto my pump after the foam filters... or do they have to be before the filters

i have never worked with bioballs


koiguyoz
Member


Jan 3, 2007, 11:27 AM

Post #16 of 19 (2604 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nathancser] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Nearly all of the bioballs in existence are made from plastic. I've supplied a photo of them here:






In most applications the bioballs are used in a trickle tower configuration and are never submerged in the water, such as the bioballs in the following filter:

The water is showered down from the top and exits the bottom. I believe the sidepipe in this picture is used for purging and is not included when building a similar filter for a pond.

The bioballs are therefore better used after any prefiltration because when the bioballs are fed with pre-cleaned water (meaning some sponge has already removed large bits of leaves etc and is only passing pond water through) they will work much more effectively.

If used before the filters, you will find the need to clean them regularly.

Because plastic bioballs take some time (4-8 weeks in my case,as well as others) washing the bioballs will clear any good biological film that has grown on the bioballs. Therefore as before, place them in an area where you are unlikely to remove them at all for cleaning (which you shouldn't do at all).

If you wish to submerge the bioballs I believe they won't work as well as they would in a wet/dry filter (or in large pond filtration applications "trickle towers") because as I have tried, when I first cleaned the bioballs (before use) the way the water collided down through the bioballs it created a lot of airation in between the bioball media (which is good for cultivating the positive bacteria (in this case aerobic bacteria). I would more likely try and source a different biomedia best used in a submerged application like ceramic rings.

In the alternative, you could always look into constructing a new filtration system to be situated in the open area, and have a new submersible solids handling pump feed that filter system instead. You would therefore have two filter systems on the pond, and you wouldn't need to cut into the old filtration system to fit additional filters. You could make the second filtration system be based on "trickle towers" (running two barrels/containers) with one as a settlement tank, and the other as a trickle tower.

Regards,

Aquaman




nathancser
Koi Lover

Jan 3, 2007, 2:26 PM

Post #17 of 19 (2594 views)
Shortcut
Re: [koiguyoz] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

thank you for your ideas i will explore my different options and look into creating a trickle tower setup like pictured


ayranjim
Koi Lover

Jan 6, 2007, 7:17 AM

Post #18 of 19 (2544 views)
Shortcut
Re: [nathancser] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello, I have tried many ideas when I first started this hobby, and I have found that a trickle tower is the best! Not only is it easy to make , but it is cheaper than buying some PRE-FAB system. Remember that you want to give a good enviroment for the bacteria, so the brand name has very little to do with the principle. The brand does not clean your pond, the bacteria cleans your pond.


koicare
Koi Lover


Jan 17, 2007, 3:41 AM

Post #19 of 19 (2476 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ayranjim] help my pond is green and pH 9.3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Never add anything to reduce your pH - you will end up crashing it at some stage! As you bio filters kick in the bacteria will use up the carbonates in your water and that will cause you pH to shift downwards. Yes, you can safely add Bi-Carb - no matter how much you add it will set your pH to roughly somewhere between 8.3 and 8.5. Do this slowly over a period of a few days.

You are most definately under filtrated (algae can only flourish when all the conditions are right for it - temps/ ample food/ sunlight etc) - I calculate the volume of your pond at 25 000 litres:
  1. How big are those 2 bio-filters and what is the size of the lids - ie: what is the largest thing you can push into them easily and are you only using a layer of foam to act as mechanical filtration? I am concerned that you are passing soup through into your bio filters.

Trickle filters are truely fantastic - and you can easily make them, if you can not afford to buy the ready made ones. You need to correct your filtration - and in a hurry - I would not be too concerned about the algae as (in my opinion) it is actually doing you a little bit of a favour at the moment - it is sucking up the excess nutrients in your water - be careful though that it does not turn on you and depelete your oxygen level in your pond- I would add additional oxygen for now as a counter measure!

You can also buy yourself the following product for the algae - it is called B504 and it is sold by a company called BioSystems in the USA - go to http://www.biobugs.com
The reason that this product is so good - is that it does not work in a chemical agressive manner - it takes weeks for it to start to clear up your water......it works by utilising the nutrients that the algae needs to survive and thrive - so it out competes the algae on the food intake - when algae does not have food it slowly starts to die back on its own accord!

I have used it to clean up clients ponds here in South Africa - and it works brilliantly!!!! With no horrid side effects.

My advice:
  1. Check your water for all your other parameters regulary until you get this sorted - ie: Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate etc - if you detect these do partial water changes whilst you fix your filtration problem.
  2. Add additional oxygen
  3. Buy the B504 - great stuff (we have to import it here, so it ends up costing and arm and a leg - but worthwhile nonetheless!)
  4. Fix your filters.......Frown

A media you can add to give you additional surface area - Matala (bond your house first!) - but this depends on the type of bio filter and whether you can add it and of course my personal favourite - trickle filters - you can also make a tube type trickle filter - see horrible sketch I have attached and then picture it nicely in your mind. Drawing as you can see is just not my thing!!!!

The one thing that is seriously worrying me is that I do not see a proper mechanical filter. Did I miss it?

Good Luck - I hope this helps!
Attachments: Home Made TT.JPG (40.2 KB)

 
 
 



Search for (options) Back to Koi.com.my Main Page

  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement     
Copyright 2001~ 2002 Hileytech Sdn Bhd , All Rights Reserved.  
No part of the forum postings can be copied without prior permission from Hileytech Sdn Bhd and the Author of the Posting.
For comments and Suggestion, Please contact the Webmaster at koi@hileytech.com