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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
ph low tap water ph very high

 





 


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Sep 23, 2007, 7:51 AM

Post #1 of 9 (2640 views)
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ph low tap water ph very high Can't Post
I've always had around a 8.0 ph level, but this year the ph was at 6.2 before correctiing it to 6.8 and now it has dropped back to 6.5. The tap water that I add is running 9.0 and have done this all summer from evaporation and water changes. I don't understand what aside from maybe salt could cause this change?? No plants. Just raised salt level to .22 for health reasons, will lower it back down to .10 in 2 weeks.


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Oct 3, 2007, 7:27 PM

Post #2 of 9 (2585 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
Just to pass along what I was told to do by the KHA " Koi Health Advisor " in our area. We never found the exact reason, but the KH was most likely being used up by the filtration system. If your KH is low it will cause you PH to drop out very quickly. My KH was at about 2 and now is at 3 with the PH ranging between 7.0 and 7.5.

He had me do a 20% water change and add 1 cup of baking soda at a time until the numbers came up. I still have been needing to add some baking soda whenever I add more salt for some reason. I am adding more salt for a sick fish.


larz1
Koi Kichi


Oct 4, 2007, 7:49 PM

Post #3 of 9 (2574 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
I missed your first post, but your KHA gave you good advice. Biofilters will consume kh constantly.
Salt will not lower your ph though. It is a basic mineral and should not have any influence on you ph at modest levels. Incorporating Oyster shell, Coral, or Lithaqua into your filtration will help to feed kh to your pond and act as a modest buffer for ph, but baking soda is a good way to bring it up as well. I would aim for kh readings of 4-7 if possible.
Have you tested your source water thoroughly?
It would be valuable to have tests for ph, kh, and gh for it, both fresh from the tap and rested for several hrs.
Some tap water contains high levels of harmless gases from the tap that quickly flash off and change the readings.
My suggestion would be to pull a sample from the tap and run all 3 tests, let the water sit in an open container for several hrs, (preferably with a small airstone in it), and then re-test. You might be surprised at the difference.


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Oct 8, 2007, 2:43 AM

Post #4 of 9 (2546 views)
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Re: [larz1] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
Thank you for the reply. The tap water runs the same after sitting for 8 hours no airstone.GH 2 KH 2 and PH 8. I have been able to get the KH up to 4 yesterday but fell again to 3 this morning. cleaned out filter-some build up not much. Working the salt level up to about .35 now from .20 about 10 days ago. Getting more flashing and jumping from fish. PH 8 GH 4 KH 3 ammonia 0 and nitrites <.25. Added Melafix and Pimafix for the last two days for faster healing of a recovering Koi. Actually my GH has gone down from 5 to 4 in about 10 days.


larz1
Koi Kichi


Oct 8, 2007, 7:12 PM

Post #5 of 9 (2526 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
Your tap water numbers are odd but workable. The only thing I'm not sure of is why you are salting above 0.30. Nitrite levels are not high enough to elevate above that and most medications don't require it. Then again, your KHA is able to advise you on that "eyes on" so I won't question that.
I would suggest you look into adding some oyster shell to the filtration to minimize the kh/ph problems. It is easy to find at any feed store and can offer you more stability over the long haul.


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Oct 8, 2007, 8:38 PM

Post #6 of 9 (2524 views)
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Re: [larz1] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
Thank you Larz1 for the response. I am keeping the salt level up, because I am not at the moment using anything else for parasites and to help the stress coat of a Koi whom is now getting better. She has or had a serious internal bacterial infection that caused her to pinecone some, she almost has all of her shape back now after three shots of batryl and 4 weeks of healing. Have not done a scraping, because we don't want to stress the fish anymore than she has already been, and she has been the only one flashing, which I would say is caused by the itchy bacterial infection not parasites. I am also trying to keep the temperature up, but losing the battle to cool fall weather here in Northern California, water temp down to 70 degrees farenheight.

Thanks for the heads up on where to get the oyster shell, I will be doing that today. I finally got the KH to stablize at 4 after about four pounds of Sodium Bicarbonate "Baking Soda". I found baking soda cheaper at Sam's Club than at the pool supply store.


larz1
Koi Kichi


Oct 10, 2007, 9:09 PM

Post #7 of 9 (2492 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
Ok then, now the salt makes sense as it does help to reduce osmotic stresses while fighting an infection. Glad to hear the baytril is working for you. Most people don't catch infections quick enough to save them once they start to pinecone.

Biofilters require constant feeding, and they produce acidic wastes which precipitates carbonates. The harder your filter has to work the more carbonates will be consumed so it must be constantly fed. With you low kh water source having the shells in the system as a readily available resource will mean you only have to add Baking Soda occasionally (like after a heavy rain or a major water change) to keep things stable.

If your water is still in the 70 deg range you are still in "prime time" for health and growth as that is the range where their metabolism is running at peak efficiency.


brianhegney
Koi Lover


Oct 10, 2007, 11:36 PM

Post #8 of 9 (2489 views)
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Re: [larz1] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
SmileThank you Larz1. I meant to ask you how the oyster shells are to be used in the filter. I bought some. They were ground up, so I put them in a paint strainer bag and set it in the filter water. Is that sufficient? How much should I use? Will I know when it needs to be replenished?

As far as the Baytril goes I guess I was lucky enough to find a concerned enough pond person to show up the day after I first noticed the pineconeing. I have those posts under the disease section as "rear end of abdomen swollen" and " egg impaction"

I have learned a whole lot through this ordeal and should be ready for just about anything now. Hopefully that won't happen again anytime soon. For the last 4 years of pond keeping I thought their water was perfect with just testing PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, and salt, and after always getting the same readings the intervals in which I tested became longer and longer. Knowing about the KH and so much more on how the PH plays in bacteria growth tells me I should have been more concerned when I had a nitrite and ammonia spike of less than .25 a couple of weeks prior to my fish getting sick. Listen to your water and fish!!

I now have doc Jonhnsons book "Koi Health and Disease" and am learning much more, especially how diet could have been a contributing factor. High protein food and fatty liver disease.

Thank you for this site and if I have any useful information to pass on I will certainly do my best to do so.


larz1
Koi Kichi


Oct 11, 2007, 9:22 PM

Post #9 of 9 (2459 views)
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Re: [brianhegney] ph low tap water ph very high [In reply to] Can't Post
Oyster shell in a bag is pretty standard for most filters, but you'll have to "fluff it up" from time to time. You can probably get by just giving it a good shaking whenever you clean your filters. Some ponders use it in bead filters as a final polishing media, but even then it has to be stirred up now and then.

 
 
 



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