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Home: KOI Talk: Pond Water Quality:
Helicopter / Bloated Koi

 




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coy
User


Aug 29, 2009, 6:22 PM

Post #1 of 13 (6713 views)
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Helicopter / Bloated Koi Can't Post

As per a previous thread (Dissolved Oxygen: Do we need aeration during Daytime? ) it is apparent that some of the koi's are afflicted with Bloated stomachs or Helicopter type body shapes.
The feeding regime is 2 cups of food usually once or at most twice per day consisting of Hikari Economy / other brands.
None of the Koi are Japan origin - all local to Malaysia to the best of my knowledge.
Just wondering that if it is indeed a bad water quality issue, and i really hope it is not as i try my very best to provide a decent environment - then why don't all the Koi got this symptom?, furthermore what really can be done to correct it?
The only test i have not done is for Colliform - and for sure it is on top of my list to do.
Any suggestions are most welcome and appreciated.
Cheers

Phil



Koi Koi
User

Sep 1, 2009, 8:36 AM

Post #2 of 13 (6654 views)
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Re: [coy] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Phil,

I have 9 local Malaysian koi for about 9 months now. IMHO, as far as my koi is concern, I believe the helicopter body shape is largely due to bloodline or genetics.

I have also expressed this opinion in the thread you quoted.

Regards,
Koi Koi



In Reply To
As per a previous thread (Dissolved Oxygen: Do we need aeration during Daytime? ) it is apparent that some of the koi's are afflicted with Bloated stomachs or Helicopter type body shapes.
The feeding regime is 2 cups of food usually once or at most twice per day consisting of Hikari Economy / other brands.
None of the Koi are Japan origin - all local to Malaysia to the best of my knowledge.
Just wondering that if it is indeed a bad water quality issue, and i really hope it is not as i try my very best to provide a decent environment - then why don't all the Koi got this symptom?, furthermore what really can be done to correct it?
The only test i have not done is for Colliform - and for sure it is on top of my list to do.
Any suggestions are most welcome and appreciated.
Cheers

Phil




M.ZAIN
User

Oct 7, 2009, 10:29 AM

Post #3 of 13 (6443 views)
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Re: [coy] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

local breed kois are know to have their belly blotered up.

i started with local koi....and gave away all of it to other friends....

Regards,
M. ZAIN

H/P : +6019 333 3675


PH8
Veteran


Oct 10, 2009, 4:08 AM

Post #4 of 13 (6381 views)
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Re: [M.ZAIN] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just having a discussion with Brother David on this subject matter and the conclusion was that the helicopter problem is more a water quality issue than a genetic issue. What contributes to the confusion is that many people who buy local koi are not the very serious hobbyists. The fact that they spent little on the local koi also likely means they spent little on the pond itself. Typically the pond would be watergarden style, not ideal for koi. In many cases, put a Japanese koi in such conditions and you will see a Japanese helicopter too. Conversely, put a local koi in very good water and I doubt you will see any helicopters flying around.SlySlySly I know this post may ruffle some feathers and is in no way meant to be a sweeping generalisation. There are many exceptions everywhere.


coy
User


Oct 10, 2009, 4:29 AM

Post #5 of 13 (6373 views)
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Re: [PH8] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Paul,
I think what might be more helpful is a explantion of what constitutes a water quality issue, then if you eliminate each of the possibilities , whatever remains, however improbable, must be the cause.

Come to think of it, I never had Helo's in the last pond - only noticed since we moved into the new one in Feb - maybe a clue here somewhere.


Cheers

Phil


PH8
Veteran


Oct 10, 2009, 4:37 AM

Post #6 of 13 (6372 views)
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Re: [coy] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Good morning Phil,SmileSmile

You might want to consider spending RM40 for a water testing company to undertake a coliform test (measured in CFU/100ml) on your water. This measures the level of fecal bacteria in the water, the cause of many bacterial diseases like dropsy. As I mentioned before, there are pillars within your pond which obstruct the free movement towards the bottom drains. These can cause trapping of fish waste.


coy
User


Oct 10, 2009, 5:10 AM

Post #7 of 13 (6359 views)
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Re: [PH8] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Paul,
I just ordered the Coliform test kit so we will see what the results are soon.
The pond has three outlets in the floor that push the water around in a circular motion, so luckly there is no dead spots within.
Cheers

Phil


raistlin
User

Oct 12, 2009, 6:22 PM

Post #8 of 13 (6269 views)
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Re: [PH8] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I dunno but I only have 1 koi that I think can be described as 'helicopter' although its not very serious. It definitely has quite a round belly. But it's the only koi out of 9 that looks like that, incidentally its the most voracious feeder too. Tongue So I'm not sure whether the 'helicopter' effect can be attributed PURELY to water conditions. I'm inclined to think some koi (just like humans) have a tendency to store more fats than others, so its still in a way genetic?


murphys33
Novice

Oct 14, 2009, 4:13 AM

Post #9 of 13 (6216 views)
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Re: [raistlin] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

i have read somewhere that installing a powerhead to provide current may be effective to curb bloated tummy issues - i have one installed in my very small pond and so far have no bloated tummy issue. i have fed very heavily and my kois grew from 6" to 12" in a little over 2 months.


skier
Novice


Oct 14, 2009, 10:30 AM

Post #10 of 13 (6184 views)
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Re: [PH8] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

I beg to differ. My only 'local' koi is a helicopter..:) The rest of my jap imported koi are all good shape. Can't be the water coz all of them are in the same pond. Unless Chagoi have a tendency to be such as the local koi is a Chagoi. I've kept it all this while irregardless of its body shape as its a good leader and already 70+cm.


coy
User


Oct 17, 2009, 7:23 AM

Post #11 of 13 (6111 views)
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Re: [PH8] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Paul,
Just had a thought, if after testing there is a high level of Coliform - how do you get rid of it? Crazy
Still waiting for the test kits to arrive - hopefully Monday Unsure.
Cheers

Phil


PH8
Veteran


Oct 17, 2009, 9:18 AM

Post #12 of 13 (6104 views)
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Re: [coy] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Phil,

Have you been following my "home" thread? My coliform level has shot through the roof too. I'm reducing it using Biotope and Malachite Green. Btw, I was not aware that there are test kits for coliform too. Do you mind telling us where you got it from, perhaps provide a link?SmileSmile


coy
User


Oct 17, 2009, 9:51 AM

Post #13 of 13 (6097 views)
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Re: [PH8] Helicopter / Bloated Koi [In reply to] Can't Post

Paul,
Here is the company website for the kits - http://www.bigbrandwater.com/coliform.html

I just had a look at your thread - interesting developement and hope your treatment works.
I recon i have the same problem as the plumber has just fixed the stand pipes that link the filter chambers which have been completely stuck and never removed since i moved in Feb 09 - don't know if the previous owner used them, so you can only imagine what is lurking in the pipes Shocked. Cleaning the pipes on Sunday.

Cheers

Phil

 
 
 



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