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Very high nitrite

 




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st8800
User


Feb 24, 2010, 7:06 PM

Post #26 of 37 (5812 views)
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Re: [larz1] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bro Larry

Thanks for your valuable advise. Your expertise in koi keeping across the Atlantic has long been admired by me and I'm sure many of our brothers here.

When I started my pond, I only put in a small bottle of bacteria culture which was only good for a pond 1/3 of my size. My pond already have pretty good aeration with 1 x hiblow 120 for a 12 ton pond. Part of that goes to the filter as well. I agree with u that there is an important lession to learn here from the use of PP... especially in a new pond setup like mine. Perhaps I should mention that before embarking on the PP path, I tried various different medicines including Dimilin and Acriflavine. I started introducing additional koi within 10 days of my pond inception without quarantine... which I agree probably wasn't the wisiest thing in the world. However, I was running out of ideas then and one dealer advised my to PP the pond. I PP with 2ppm on day 1 and another 2ppm on day 3... this was done without shutting out the filters pumps. By day 4, flashing and bottom dwelling has stopped. I must say, PP is really a wonder chemical in that regard. However on hindsight, I probably have killed off most of the bacteria in my filter then.

Following that, I proceeded with feeding.... 6 times per day of roughly 2 handfuls each (autofeeder on power of 4-5 each feed). This went on for around 2 weeks before I again introduce 2 new koi into my pond. Having learned an earlier lesson, I asked the dealer to quarantine the new koi for 1 week beforehand. Despite the precaution, a few koi again started to flash within 1 day. I then threw caution into the wind and did another 3 rounds of PP within 3 days... 1st day without shutting the filter pumps but for the 2nd and 3rd day, I shut the pumps for a couple of hours. Subsequently, flashing promptly stopped. Unknown to me at that time, my filter beneficial bacteria have probably all but wiped out. I carried on with 6-8 times feed per day for another 10 days or so until I started to see some redness in a few koi. I then proceeded to clean my filter and tested the water. This was when I found out my nitrite was probably more than 3.3mg and then I bought and put the 2 big bottles of Interpret Biozyme bacterial culture iand emptied both of them into my pond over a course of 3 days. I still continue to feed once per day for this period.... did not dare to feed more for the fear of adding to the already sky high nitrite. On day 4, I decided to take up Bro Paul's advise and step up the feeding to 6 times per day. Today is day 5 and the nitrite test has already shown marked improvement of just over 0.3mg. I have also turned on the 2nd pump since this morning. UV is still off.

My conclusion: After 2nd round of PP, with the filter's bacterial wiped out, I did not include bacterial culture but carry on with normal feeding... nitrite level went sky high. Upon adding the bacteria culture 5 days ago and some feeding, there is already marked improvement with indication that filter bacteria are already converting the nitrite.

Best
Spencer


st8800
User


Feb 24, 2010, 7:21 PM

Post #27 of 37 (5812 views)
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Re: [DavidSoon] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bro David

I dare say.... no discussion in this forum is ever complete without your participation. Wink I did not realise my earlier ignorance and mistakes had turned into an active and lively debate.

I'm trying to break out of my novice shell and with the help of Bro Poh Beng, Bro Paul, you and all the other brothers here, I know I'm gaining valuable knowledge to better manage my pond and koi. In truth, I was skeptical at 1st to post my earlier errors and foolishness for fear that I might get laughed at. But as Bro Paul have shown in his pond thread.... sharing is everything... so we must share our good and bad experience and hope others and myself can benefit from this.

BTW, since Max don't sell the Aquazyn anymore, do u know where I can get some in S'pore? Would still like to keep a bottle as spare.

Best
Spencer

(This post was edited by st8800 on Feb 24, 2010, 7:25 PM)


st8800
User


Feb 24, 2010, 8:27 PM

Post #28 of 37 (5800 views)
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Re: [Carpa Diem] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Bro Jeff

Basing on my own experiences these last few weeks and despite what the west may think.... I have to say that bottled bugs really works!Smile

Best
Spencer


koinutx
Koi Kichi


Feb 25, 2010, 4:38 AM

Post #29 of 37 (5766 views)
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Re: [st8800] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi Bro David

I dare say.... no discussion in this forum is ever complete without your participation. Wink I did not realise my earlier ignorance and mistakes had turned into an active and lively debate.

I'm trying to break out of my novice shell and with the help of Bro Poh Beng, Bro Paul, you and all the other brothers here, I know I'm gaining valuable knowledge to better manage my pond and koi. In truth, I was skeptical at 1st to post my earlier errors and foolishness for fear that I might get laughed at. But as Bro Paul have shown in his pond thread.... sharing is everything... so we must share our good and bad experience and hope others and myself can benefit from this.

BTW, since Max don't sell the Aquazyn anymore, do u know where I can get some in S'pore? Would still like to keep a bottle as spare.



Bro Spencer,

I got this "feeling" that we should not add in new bacterial culture once the cycle started well and as the filter mature, the new bacteria culture is no longer needed.
In every addition of the new culture, you are upsetting the existing mature system, as I "felt' that there are many strains of bacterials and the new vs old will crush each other, and the survivor of the 2 will re-establish their colony all over again.Sly

Just based on gut feeling and feel...no research done.

Cheers!

Poh Beng
----------------------------------------------------------
http://koifish.blog.com



st8800
User


Feb 25, 2010, 8:03 AM

Post #30 of 37 (5745 views)
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Re: [koinutx] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bro Poh Beng

My intention was to keep it as stand by... in case my filter crush some day again. However, if u feel that might be conflicting bacteria strains in different brands, I can understand that.

Best
Spencer


PH8
Veteran


Feb 25, 2010, 10:07 AM

Post #31 of 37 (5722 views)
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Re: [st8800] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Bro Spencer, really happy to hear your situation improving. I believe Bro Poh Beng is right about using the same type of bacteria culture to avoid clashes. Anyway, once your bacterial colony is up and running, you will no longer need to add any of this. Just for start up only.

Many people have never tried this feed kao kao way of establishing the bacterial colony (it does sound a little risky after all), so sometimes it is hard for them to have faith. I have tried it and it worked very well for me, exactly as Brother David told me it would. After all, he has done it countless times. Once you have gone through it successfully, you will also know, and you can teach people next time.SmileSmileSmile


(This post was edited by PH8 on Feb 25, 2010, 10:12 AM)


larz1
Veteran


Feb 25, 2010, 2:57 PM

Post #32 of 37 (5671 views)
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Re: [st8800] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Good conversationCool

What is most valuable in this is sharing different experiences (that go beyond opinion and into facts) is for other readers who may be lurking to learn along with us as we share. Some "bottled bugs" are truly a waste of money while others do have their place. Where a hobbyist may be located and changes in what dealers carry can change the game on us as to what is available (if anything) that has value. The only branded products I'm familiar with that I can vouch for are "Koizyme" and "Lymnozyme", which are widely used in fisheries to reduce aeromonas/pseudomonas by out-competing them for food. They are mfg. by Keeton Industries who also market several other branded products that may or may not be available in different parts of the world, so we are all riding in our own boatsTongue

One other important thing to learn from this thread (for all readers) is the problems we can encounter with "shotgun" approaches to treating ponds. Before using PP there were 2 previous treatments with pond-wide medications. These also add to the chemical soup contained not only in the water, but in the blood stream of the Koi as well. Too many things thrown at them in a short period can overwhelm their bodies ability to cope and all of them add stress to come degree. These are important considerations when treating a pond.

What is the first thing that is missing from this conversation that has yet to be mentioned?

Scrape, Scope, Identify, Treat.

If the flashing Koi are first captured, scraped, scoped, and the source of the flashing identified, they can then be treated for the one thing causing the problem with a single product designed for that purpose. Much money is saved, the Koi are less stressed, the pond is more stable, and the problems are solved more quickly.

JR and Don (KoiCop) are both long time members at Koi Bito and contribute much to the conversations thereCool JR is so well studied that it is difficult to measure, and Don has compiled one of the most impressive compendiums of Koi knowledge by gleaning information from the worlds top hobbyists that it boggles the mind. I just act like a sponge and soak up everything I canWink I've been "sponging" information from people like Mohan, David, DTTK, DTBH, GCSpyder, etc... right here on this forum for many years as well.
I'm no expertTongue I just hang out with as many of them as I canWink


st8800
User


Feb 25, 2010, 6:37 PM

Post #33 of 37 (5641 views)
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Re: [PH8] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bro Paul

Yes, I'm happy to confirm that Bro David's methods really works. I guess that's why we call him sifu. Smile

It was risky though.... the bacterial culture from Intrepet was at least reputable. The risk would have been greater for untried brands with water parameters are already off the charts. I would only advise people to do this if they know that their bacterial culture really works.

For now, my water still remains:

Nitrite = > 0.3mg
Nitrate = 0.15mg - 0.25mg
Ammonia = 0

I would like to see the nitrite to drop to < 0.3mg by this weekend. I will continue to do daily 10% water change until then. Thanks again bro.

Best
Spencer


st8800
User


Feb 25, 2010, 6:49 PM

Post #34 of 37 (5637 views)
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Re: [larz1] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Bro Larry

This is definitely a good experience for me and hopefully it will help others to understand the danger of PP in a new pond setup. I have a risk taking nature which I'm hoping will mellow with age. Angelic

The thought about buying a microscope and going thru the proper procedures in treating a koi have crossed my mind before. I would probably do this once my pond is filled with higher quality koi of 60-80cm. I'm just glad that are many helpful brothers to guide novice like me when things go wrong. I'm trying to be a sponge as well and learn as much as I can. Fortunately, I have joined a great forum and I'm just learning new things almost everyday.

Best
Spencer


st8800
User


Feb 27, 2010, 6:47 PM

Post #35 of 37 (5542 views)
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Re: [st8800] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

As expected my nitrite has fallen to < 0.3mg/l by this afternoon... which is the lowest scale in my Tetra test kit. I want to take the opportunity to thank all the brothers here who have offered their invaluable advise.

Best
Spencer


PH8
Veteran


Feb 28, 2010, 5:56 AM

Post #36 of 37 (5531 views)
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Re: [st8800] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

That's great new, bro. I think since the bacterial starter you used worked well for you, no need to go and get Aquazyn or anything else. Just keep a little stock of what you used this time round in case you filter bacteria got knocked down again for any reason.


st8800
User


Mar 1, 2010, 3:28 PM

Post #37 of 37 (5445 views)
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Re: [PH8] Very high nitrite [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure bro, sounds good. Will do that next time I run by Mainland.

Best
Spencer

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