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Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment

 





 


gazphillips
New User

Mar 1, 2008, 12:01 AM

Post #1 of 12 (1561 views)
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Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment Can't Post
Hi,

I hope somebody can help me. I have a 2000 galon pond stocked with about 20 or so koi. most are quite small but 4 of them are 18"+. The filters and Pump are the Hozelock Bioforce 18000 and Titan 12000 Pump.

Recently the larger Koi have been flashing and flicking against plant pots and walls of the pond every so often, so i went to my local aquatic centre and bought Anti-Parasite 5 day treatment. I finished the treatment last week and they are still the same. Should I try anything else?? Could it be the water quality??

I really feel attached to my fish so i wouldn't like to lose any of them. Does anybody have any advise for me please??

Thanks for your help

Gaz


koi@kit
Senior Member


Mar 1, 2008, 8:32 AM

Post #2 of 12 (1554 views)
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Re: [gazphillips] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi there..

u shud check ur ammonia, nitarite, PH (morning/evening)...

did u clean ur filter b4 u treat ur pond? check ur filter..

may b its not parasite.

have u input any new koi into ur pond?

rgds
kit


zoul
Member

Mar 2, 2008, 12:22 AM

Post #3 of 12 (1538 views)
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Re: [gazphillips] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear gaz

Firstley you have to many fish in your pond. All manmade ponds are overstocked but yours is brimming, your fish have just 100 gallons each. Thats not very good.

Your next problem is not having any test kits for your water peramitors. First check these ammonia nitrites ans nitrates you might whant to check your PH also.

But first take out your plant pots and any decrative rocks and plants ect as these are a breeding ground for bacteria. Check your filters and get some liquid bacterial seeding filter stuff.

Do water changes on a regular bases between 10 and 15 % do not add salt to your pond.

I think the antiparasite thing you brought was proberley for white spot, a mix of malachite green and formalin.

You might be better of with pertasium permagnigate you can but this from most chemists but depening on the debries in the pond use between 1.5 to 2 grams per thousand litres. but keep an eye on the fish as you might need to make a quick water change.

But your best bet is to either adopt your fish out or make another bigger pond.

keep reading what you can on the subject many people have many ideas but you should be able to sort through it and find a way that suits you.

Hope this helps.


gazphillips
New User

Mar 3, 2008, 5:39 PM

Post #4 of 12 (1518 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi, thanks for the reply, No new fish have been added to the pond since august last year. i will have a check on the filters tonight and see.

should i turn the filters off when treating the pond??

Thanks

Gaz


needucho
Koi Lover

Mar 3, 2008, 11:35 PM

Post #5 of 12 (1514 views)
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Re: [gazphillips] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
you have to tell us what kind of anti parasite you use. Parasites are divided in two groups, one can be eliminated by a mixture of malachite green and formalyn, the other group is flukes, can be eliminated by Prazi or supravern. It's cannot be mixed and use once. therfore, somebody who sell you the anti-parasite, should know better. Flashing, rubbing on the floor is just the first sign that the fish feel something bother him on his skin, it's better off you do a scope on the fish see what type of parasite and treat accordingly. If not do a shotgun method using ProfromC and Supravern. As far as 100 gallon per fish, it's sure crowded, but it's not creating parasites. it's can only reduce growth and inmune system of the fish. Water parameter can kill the fish, but not making him flashing either. Please read on my many posts about eliminating parasites, you be OK
samantha


koi@kit
Senior Member


Mar 4, 2008, 9:43 AM

Post #6 of 12 (1508 views)
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Re: [needucho] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Samantha..

the 'supravern' u mentioned, for parasite, can it be used to treat gill parasite?

rgds
kit


needucho
Koi Lover

Mar 4, 2008, 11:26 PM

Post #7 of 12 (1492 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
Supravern is the most common used by breeder and hobylist due to the fact that is real cheap. only a few cent can cure 2,3 hundred gallon, and it is the most powerfull too. it's eliminate all fluke (body and gill fluke), body and gill fluke despite the name it stay on the hole fish, gill included. body fluke is a little bigger than gill fluke and produce by splitting out baby fluke, meanwhile gill fluke produce eggs, in a large number, 20 eggs per hour.
If you call gill parasite is gill fluke, then supravern is the most efficent way to eliminate them. All parasite can stay where they wanted, in body and in gill. Once it get in the gill, probably the fish will be gone because there are so many hole and fold that parasite can stick in that chemical cannot reach. In this case you will see the gill all mess up, fish cannot breath at ease, then it will be gone.
Koi illness is not complicate at all if you compare to human. I guess for sure God create human before he create koi. Definitely, he did a real bad job on us. Human healh insurance is a real burden to all of us now.
samantha


koi@kit
Senior Member


Mar 5, 2008, 8:38 AM

Post #8 of 12 (1483 views)
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Re: [needucho] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
hello samantha..

many thanks for the info, very2 infomative..

rgds
kit


tangigi3
Koi Lover


Mar 6, 2008, 3:32 PM

Post #9 of 12 (1443 views)
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Re: [gazphillips] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Gaz,

You are getting a lot of great advice here.

as you have read, water quality is very impt. Once you have made sure your water parameters are in order, make a visual of your kois.

do you see white spots (grain of salt size) on the body of your kois, if you do, your kois has ich. (medicine: forma green)

if not, do you see something that resembles a white string sticking out of the body with an approx length of 5 mm? thats anchor worm. (you have to remove those worms one by one)

if not, and they are flashing, it is most likely skin or gill flukes. (do a search, I have my own concoction of fenbendazole)

The most conservative approach to the situation is to put salt in your pond. most people put .03% salt. personally, if I am treating my pond, I go 0.07% for one week and do a water change of 20%. You will see an improvement within 3 days if its something salt can cure.

regards

Lar


needucho
Koi Lover

Mar 7, 2008, 1:00 AM

Post #10 of 12 (1430 views)
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Re: [tangigi3] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
fenbendazole is a old type od dewormer, it seems to work sometime, not a sure thing. Be very carefull when you use chemical, make sure it work everytime thru user like us. Several years back, i have case of severe fluke, i use Anti-Fluke made by Aquarium Product. this product can only get worst in my pond. 40 some koi died by just my poor selection on chemical!. Supaverm used with salt (.3%) is a sure thing. some people complain it cause redness on weak fish, i do experience it, but just change 25% water when you see it, then it's OK.
Salt content in tap water sometime can reach to .1%. addding salt to .07% don't do any good in my opinion. it got to reach a level that fish feel itching then they realease more mucus. and that level is .3%
samantha


tangigi3
Koi Lover


Mar 7, 2008, 11:59 AM

Post #11 of 12 (1408 views)
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Re: [needucho] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Samantha,

I know what you mean. I should have added "use at your own risk" concerning the fenbendazole. I have used it and the results were favorable and I will continue to use it. it very hard to get supaverm and prazi in the philippines, so I had to make do with what I can find and safe for filter and something hard to overdose. personally, PP is my last result and I avoid using it if I can.

regarding salt, I made sure to write the word "personally", so others would know its not a recommendation, but a personal choice.

cheers

Lar


viper99
Koi Lover


Apr 20, 2008, 9:23 AM

Post #12 of 12 (1033 views)
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Re: [needucho] Koi Flashing & Flicking even after Anti-Parasite Treatment [In reply to] Can't Post
will high concentrate of salt, say above 0.5% cud cause fish to flash?


In Reply To
you have to tell us what kind of anti parasite you use. Parasites are divided in two groups, one can be eliminated by a mixture of malachite green and formalyn, the other group is flukes, can be eliminated by Prazi or supravern. It's cannot be mixed and use once. therfore, somebody who sell you the anti-parasite, should know better. Flashing, rubbing on the floor is just the first sign that the fish feel something bother him on his skin, it's better off you do a scope on the fish see what type of parasite and treat accordingly. If not do a shotgun method using ProfromC and Supravern. As far as 100 gallon per fish, it's sure crowded, but it's not creating parasites. it's can only reduce growth and inmune system of the fish. Water parameter can kill the fish, but not making him flashing either. Please read on my many posts about eliminating parasites, you be OK








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