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Home: Koi Health: Koi Feeding, Nutrition and Diet:
Koi pellet

 






 


sirwin
Koi Lover

Jan 18, 2005, 8:43 AM

Post #1 of 23 (3187 views)
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Koi pellet Can't Post

Hi.
I am new to this forum. Would like to ask your advise on something. I read in some of the posting here that some of the bros here feed their KOI with fish pellet containing 60++ % protein. Can you please recomend me which pellet that has such high content on protein


andymadd
Koi Lover


Jan 19, 2005, 6:52 PM

Post #2 of 23 (3158 views)
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Re: [sirwin] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi

Don't go down the Protien good all else bad road yes protien is valuable but so is all the carbs oils ash colour enhancers etc etc etc...

I feed a 38% protien in summer and all my fish are just lovely .


sirwin
Koi Lover

Apr 18, 2005, 12:03 AM

Post #3 of 23 (3010 views)
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Re: [andymadd] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah i understand that it is not good to feed high protein pellet
I am just curious what are those pellet that actually contains such high protein.
Anyone of you all tried Aquadine pellet b4? Izzit good?


dechoong
Member


Apr 18, 2005, 2:17 AM

Post #4 of 23 (2996 views)
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Re: [sirwin] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Sirwin,

It is not that high protein pellets are not good, I think what Andy meant is not to rely on protein alone for a complete diet.

For your information, these are the high protein food that I know of:

1) Kusuri paste food >60%
2) Momotaro pellets >50%
3) Most silkworm based food >50%

Personally, I would consider anything around 40% protein good enough to fuel growth in young kois. Once sufficient protein level has been established, you have to look at other important factors like lipids, carbohydrate, fibre and ash (minerals). Some of the best koi food are fortified with vitamins, essential minerals and probiotics. Protein is very important, but not the end to it all. Just take a look at the typical analysis and ingredients for Hikari Excel.

Not all koi food which uses spirulina as colour enhancer are made equal. I've been given Astro Spirulina as a gift and personally, it doesn't smell right to me. In the end I gave it away to another friend who keeps local koi. If you'd like to know how a well processed spirulina smells like, simply catch a whiff of a bottle of GNC spirulina capsules. I find Hikari Excel and Misaki Spirulina comes closest... the "green" smell is prevalent.

One last thing... kois can only digest and absorb protein when the water temperature is high enough. If you are living in parts of the world with cold weather, it is better to feed wheatgerm based pellets.

Rgds,
Dennis


(This post was edited by dechoong on Apr 18, 2005, 2:34 AM)


sirwin
Koi Lover

Apr 18, 2005, 7:32 AM

Post #5 of 23 (2992 views)
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Re: [dechoong] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Deechong
Thanks for the info
The reason y i am asking for high protein food is because i am actually thinking of feeding my flower horn with Koi pellet. I read somewhere that Koi pellet and arowana pellet are one of the healthiest pellet around. To hunch up the KOK we need to feed the fish with high protein food

Actually it is really hard to compare Astro spirulina wth Hikari coz the price different is to huge
In Penang 1kg of Astro spirulina is as expensive as 100gram of Hikari spirulina. So very hard to compare one.
Soemmore i am trying to cut down the cost on fish food. Previously i have been feeding my fh imported fish foods which is actually quite expensive but of course not that expensive compared to Hikari. So cannot go for Hikari


mike c
Koi Kichi


Apr 18, 2005, 9:14 AM

Post #6 of 23 (2986 views)
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Re: [sirwin] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

not all proteins are good for kois (fish) vegetable proteins for example are not easily digestible.

but for flowerhorns, dont you feed worms to your flowerhorns? - thats a good source of protein.
why dont you try feeding shrimps



____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it


sirwin
Koi Lover

Apr 18, 2005, 11:28 AM

Post #7 of 23 (2977 views)
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Re: [aragorn] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Aragorn
Fancy seeing u here as well.
Anyway yeah live stocks are actually a very good source of protein
Just that My mum is againts the idea of me feeding my fish anything a live
Anyway i find it healthier and cheaper to feed pellets.
Coz worms and shrimps carry diseases at times. So very risky
Somemore the water gets dirty and smelly very fast


mike c
Koi Kichi


Apr 18, 2005, 1:12 PM

Post #8 of 23 (2968 views)
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Re: [sirwin] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

sirwin, did you use another name in another forum?

this is actually the first forum i joined.

anyway, re: the shrimp ... i use dried shrimp
but you are right about it making the water smell. i guess you win some you lose some.

re: pellets, i feed my koi (sometimes arowana) 50% protein pellets. (no brand name ... custom made by someone i know)
he said it uses protein that DID NOT come from vegetables



____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it


sirwin
Koi Lover

Apr 18, 2005, 2:04 PM

Post #9 of 23 (2964 views)
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Re: [aragorn] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Arogorn
U are a member of arofanatic.com right?
I am also a member there
The pellet u are talking about
Izzit effective? how much izzitr?


mike c
Koi Kichi


Apr 18, 2005, 3:07 PM

Post #10 of 23 (2953 views)
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Re: [sirwin] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

i actually dont remember if im a member or not.

pellets ... for my arowana:

i noticed that there's significantly more poop than if i were feeding live fish
i stopped feeding right away because i ended up cleaning the tank 3 times a week minimum.

for kois ... i dont really notice a difference in growth/color



____________________________________

If you know how it works, you'll know how to fix it


HB Ng
Koi Lover

Apr 18, 2005, 3:58 PM

Post #11 of 23 (2945 views)
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Re: [sirwin] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hi.
I am new to this forum. Would like to ask your advise on something. I read in some of the posting here that some of the bros here feed their KOI with fish pellet containing 60++ % protein. Can you please recomend me which pellet that has such high content on protein


Hi All,
Any comment about 'SAKI HIKARI'? Is it suitable for small koi(less than 20cm)? Should I feed 100% saki hikari or mix with wheat-germ?
h.b.ng


GCSpyder
Koi Addict


Apr 18, 2005, 4:05 PM

Post #12 of 23 (2940 views)
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Re: [HB Ng] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi HB Ng,

Saki Hikari growth is ok for koi of your size that you specify for your weather in JB. Just make sure you got the appropriate size. It is indicated in the packaging. I would lay off the colour food for the moment when they are still small..

cheers..


dechoong
Member


Apr 25, 2005, 11:00 PM

Post #13 of 23 (2798 views)
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Re: [HB Ng] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ng,

Saki Hikari is the good stuff. For 20cm young kois, I would reccomend Saki Hikari Growth if you don't mind a little oil on the pond surface after feeding. If you don't mind giving the best (we are talking $$$ here Wink), try Hikari Hi-Growth in the morning and Saki Hikari Growth for the rest of the day.

Rgds,
Dennis


HB Ng
Koi Lover

Apr 26, 2005, 11:09 AM

Post #14 of 23 (2777 views)
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Re: [dechoong] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi! Some of my kois are less than 20cm, if I feed with SAKI HIKARI GROWTH will it affect their growth? Now I mix wheat-germ & saki hikari to feed them.
h.b.ng


dechoong
Member


Apr 27, 2005, 12:43 AM

Post #15 of 23 (2713 views)
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Re: [HB Ng] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ng,

Saki Hikari Growth (SHG) is good for young kois' growth. I think the question here is whether your 20cm kois can take the size of the pellets. If I've not gotten it wrong, I think SHG only comes in medium large (LM) sized pellets. My suggestion is if you do not see the small kois having problem taking the pellets into their mouth, they are doing fine. I have a kohaku about 28cm in late Feb which can easily take in 7-8 SHG pellets in a single gulp and it is about 36cm now.

Wheatgerm pellets are easily digestible and is particularly useful in colder climates. However, the water temperature in our local climate is seldom below 24 degree Celcius. As kois are cold blooded animals, their metabolism is at its peak in our environment. So, high protein growth food is particularly effective because the water temperature is high enough that the kois do not have a problem digesting these food.

As for Hikari Hi-Growth (HHG) as mentioned in an earlier post, I would suggest you keep it off your small kois till they are about 30cm. HHG pellets only comes in large size and are elongated. But oh my... the kois do put on girth with these Wink.

Rgds,
Dennis


HB Ng
Koi Lover

Apr 27, 2005, 3:09 PM

Post #16 of 23 (2677 views)
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Re: [dechoong] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Dechoong,
Thanks for your advise. I heard a dealer in JB said we have to control their growth because if kois growing too fast will affect its colour, it is true? I can get medium size of Hikari Saki Growth in JB but in 15kg packing(my friend purchased from Singapore) & it is really smelly.
h.b.ng


dechoong
Member


Apr 28, 2005, 2:32 AM

Post #17 of 23 (2657 views)
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Re: [HB Ng] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Ng,

A koi will only grow as fast as its genes and environment allows, so I don't believe in kois growing too fast. There is no doubt young kois going through accelerated growth rates will appear as if its colour has faded. This is because the colour pigmentation on the outer rim of the scales has yet to "catch up" with the extension. That is why all kois that are still growing has a noticeable difference in shade on the outer rims of the scales visible on the coloured areas. The more important issue here is not to overfeed. Overfeeding will not only lead to waste, but also deteoriating water quality and worse, indigestion. Feed an amount each meal that takes no more than 15-20 mins to finish.

To minimize this apparent "fading", I feed my kois Hi-Growth + Excel with a 2:1 ratio in the morning, and only SHG in the afternoon and evening (Hi-Growth + Excel too expensive to feed every meal Laugh). Spirulina is a naturally occuring food for kois in algae rich natural ponds and kois harvested from such ponds display intense colours. There are words that colour food damages young kois' liver, but I can't verify it. However, I'm quoting a paragraph from an experienced hobbyist HWong below:


Quote
Kentaro Sakai advises that we shud feed colour food all year round except for one month B4 competition when we shud feed wheat germ to bring out the Shiroji. He pooh pooh the perception that spirulina will damage the koi's liver as unscientifc hogwash.....



Please take note of the difference in terms between "colour food" and "pure cultured spirulina". Pure cultured spirulina is a natural colour enhancing food, but a colour food may not be processed from spirulina. Also, not all spirulina koi food are made equal. I've attached a link below for your reference. Hope it helps in your understanding.

http://www.koikichi.com/info/articles/colour_enhancing_food.html

SHG do smell like shrimp paste, but is nothing compared to Kusuri Super Growth paste food Smile. This stinky paste food has a super high protein level of 63.5% and is particularly effective in promoting growth, especially in young kois which always seem hungry Cool.

Rgds,
Dennis


dttk
Senior Member

Apr 28, 2005, 3:48 PM

Post #18 of 23 (2612 views)
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Re: [dechoong] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Dennis, that's the wonder of this hobby, isn't it? Smile So many contrasting expert opinions to choose from! Sly If we were to make similar assumptions of koi with humans, too much of colour enhancers, which are basically Vit A derivatives would cause liver toxicity. But then again, koi are not humans and this was not proven in koi. However, I strongly agree with you that naturally derived colour enhancers are the safer choice and gives better results. As to the type of feeding for preparing a koi prior to competition, I would like to advocate following what is logical and if one is adventurous enough, thru trial and error. Sly Cheers! Smile
Always friendly :)


maybank
Koi Lover

Jun 16, 2006, 11:40 AM

Post #19 of 23 (1505 views)
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Re: [dechoong] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

How about high fat content? This is supposed to be good right as I have seen a few articles about it. Around 7-9% like the Saki Hikari Growth pellets.

I have seen some Malaysian made pellets with protein of 40% and fat content of 8-9% - I think the brand is called Yamada(?) and it is sold in Ikano fish shop. (cuttle fish is one of the ingredient). It is certaintly cheaper than Saki Hikari Growth.

Anyone has experience with this pellets?


dechoong
Member


Jun 22, 2006, 1:47 AM

Post #20 of 23 (1449 views)
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Re: [maybank] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi maybank,

I think moderation is the key... too high a fat content can't be good, isn't it? Wink There's an article on the development of the Saki Hikari feeds and it did mention fat content being an important ingredient in the diet, but it also specifically mentioned the importance of a natural and balanced diet for the proper and fast growth of koi without potential side effects.

I'm sticking with Saki Hikari Growth and Hikari Hi-Growth as I've gotten pretty good results so far. Some hobbyists may baulk at the cost of these feeds but I find them quite acceptable. I spend more on a single meal with my gf then my koi eat in a month TongueWink.

Cheers,
Dennis


maybank
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2006, 8:57 AM

Post #21 of 23 (1442 views)
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Re: [dechoong] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Dennis for the experienced advice.

You are right on quality food vs price. I think most beginners like me start off looking for the holy grail of high quality food at a cheap price....but most realise you pay for what you get at the end.

You are also right about spending more money on girlfriends' single meal vs fish food in a month - and the irony is that the girlfriend is trying to stay slim while we are trying to fatten the fish! We all obviously love our fishes more so we should spend more on the kois than the skinny girlfriend.

For info - I looked at some new brands, prior to this email - Yamagold and Four Seasons - packaging looks different but the wording/food content/breakdown are identical, so I suspect it is from the same manufacturer. Pellet looks ok (no crumbling) and smells ok. Similar breakdown to saki hikari growth in terms of protein and fat content except for addition of color enhancer astaxanthin. Hard to trust.
Almost newbie


dechoong
Member


Jun 23, 2006, 1:45 AM

Post #22 of 23 (1412 views)
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Re: [maybank] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
and the irony is that the girlfriend is trying to stay slim while we are trying to fatten the fish!



Hehe... on the contrary, gf and koi are alike in many ways... like you should recognise a tategoi when you see one... one that can eat and benefit from the good nutrition and yet wouldn't compromise the body conformation LaughSlyWink.

Cheers,
Dennis


zoul
Member

Jun 23, 2006, 8:26 AM

Post #23 of 23 (1403 views)
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Re: [dechoong] Koi pellet [In reply to] Can't Post

Man what planet do you live on ??? When some chick says to me...... I know you love your fish more than me so i won't make you choose... can i please stay a few more days?

i think the earth quake of my mouth hitting the ground would be felt by all of china...

PS don't let my gf see this post.

 
 
 



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