Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): Koi Health: Koi Feeding, Nutrition and Diet: Where is all the s*** coming from?

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Where is all the s*** coming from?

ljkershaw
Koi Lover

Aug 21, 2006, 9:24 PM

Post #1 of 18 (2437 views)
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Where is all the s* coming from?**	Can't Post

Well obviously the fish, but I have noticed recently that there seems to be a lot of solid waste floating around in the pond... Unsure

I'm feeding five koi and 2 comets which are all roughly 7-8". I don't think I am overfeeding them so I can't understand why there is so much waste in the water.

I feed them 3 times a day with Nishikoi professional growth pellets and sometimes a little brown bread but only a little at a time. The pellets are quite large so I was wondering if this may be the problem. I am only feeding them 2-3 each of these at a time. I usually feed until they all go down to 'chew'. Four of the fish have only been added to the pond about 6 weeks ago so maybe this is a normal amount of waste for this many fish? Crazy

One of the comets has an ulcer on his side which I am presently treating with iosal in a sick tank (got fed up of trying to catch the bloomin' thing for an hour a day!) and I think this may be a result of the waste in the water.

Any opinions and views would be appreciated.

LK

zoul
Member

Aug 21, 2006, 11:48 PM

Post #2 of 18 (2432 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Could well be down to over feeding. Bread has a lot of carbs and most foods don't let you know how much carbs you are giving your fish.

Ulcers are a problem to do with bacteria that often lives on waiste products. if you have floating fish poos (don't realy like to say shit ) then you are definatley over feeding. What kind of filter system do you have ?

do you have bottom drains? what is the quality of the water? do you have test kits for the water ? ammonia nitrites and nitrates need to be checked on a regular basis.

In the meen time you need to do water changes of about 10 to 15% per week. Ask about ulcers in the health forum and i'll tell you how to deal with them.

backslang
Koi Lover

Aug 23, 2006, 5:25 PM

Post #3 of 18 (2393 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

are the ulcers more like a lump/blister on the side of the fish?
what colour is it?

ljkershaw
Koi Lover

Aug 30, 2006, 12:27 AM

Post #4 of 18 (2313 views)
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Re: [backslang] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

No, it looked like he had ripped his skin open on something but on closer inspection it is red and very sore. I am waiting to see if it is healing. I am treating it with Iosal and it has turned white which I hope is a sign of healing. I'm keeping an eye on it to see if it starts getting worse again. The guy at the koi shop recommended Iosal (Would do at �17.99 a bottle! Sly

) If the Iosal doesn't work then I am going to try Zoul's advice (in the Health forum).

LK

mrchewbeaverkoi
Member

Sep 8, 2006, 6:26 AM

Post #5 of 18 (2253 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

here is my 1 good advised if the fish u have that is sick and u cost u to fix it more than the prices when u buy it, just go dig a big hole and burry it alived and remember to put dirt on it quickly so it won't feel anymore pain. I did it to 2 of my fancy gold fish and 1 of my koi and i feel good about it don't ever try to put the sick koi back into the health tank it cost u more than u can lost on ya money. I did that before with feeder gold fish when i was at my old house because back than i haven't have koi and they only cost 1 USD for 7 of them or 1 USD for 1 scoop what ever the fish person at Super Pet get is what i got in their net racket. Super Pet is now become Petco and i think they no longer have koi because koi can't lived in aquarium due to they grow quickly and won't fit it.

koiguyoz
Member

Sep 12, 2006, 2:19 PM

Post #6 of 18 (2239 views)
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Re: [mrchewbeaverkoi] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

if the fish u have that is sick...just go dig a big hole and burry it alived and remember to put dirt on it quickly so it won't feel anymore pain. I did it to 2 of my fancy gold fish and 1 of my koi and i feel good about it

Buried alive? Man, I hope you don't believe in Karma.

The fish will end up suffocating in the dirt, potentially for minutes, or hours depending on how moist the soil is. They will feel pain.

You feel good about it??? Frown

You are very inhumane Unimpressed

Koi38
Senior Member

Sep 13, 2006, 7:28 AM

Post #7 of 18 (2224 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Clean it with HP(hydrogen peroxide) and apply Betadine or Iodine.

If it really bad Tricide-Neo, this is the best meds for ulcers Smile

rgds,
Jon

PS: You don't burry koi alive as it's not a humane thing to do. For small fish, you place the fish with a bit of water in a plastic bag then to freezer. For large fish/koi its either a blow to the head or you can use clove oil or MS22 strong dose is needed and come back few hours later

You can then burry your pet Smile

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

tangigi3
Koi Lover

Sep 16, 2006, 7:14 AM

Post #8 of 18 (2170 views)
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Re: [Koi38] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

even if you feed your fishes the right proportion, it is unavoidable for aggressive kois to feed more than the others. I do see floating poop sometimes and I just scoop it up with a net.

The proper way to dispose of any fish is to fill a bucket with ice and water. the cold will instantly numb and kill the fish.

Lar

ljkershaw
Koi Lover

Sep 16, 2006, 7:37 PM

Post #9 of 18 (2162 views)
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Re: [tangigi3] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wow! I think I will try to get her better no matter how much it costs. The fish means more to me than a few quid. The ulcer went white and was healing after it was treated with Iosal the first time. However, it has been a couple of weeks now and the wound has still not closed. I think I am going to have to get Snowy out again and put more Iosal on. Do ulcers take a long time to heal usually?

I have reduced the feeding to twice a day and the waste situation has improved.

LK

tangigi3
Koi Lover

Sep 16, 2006, 8:34 PM

Post #10 of 18 (2159 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi LK,

I used to feed my fish 2x a day, but found it to be more efficient to feed them the same amount 4x a day at 3 hour interval (8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm). they poop less and absorb more of the food.

Lar

ljkershaw
Koi Lover

Sep 17, 2006, 4:36 AM

Post #11 of 18 (2155 views)
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Re: [tangigi3] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

It wouldn't be possible for me to feed them that often because I leave the house at 7am for work and don't get home until 6pm. Unsure

I'll try doing that on weekends and during the school holidays though. Little and often is better.

The problem is I have two very greedy and aggressive fish who don't give the others a look in. They eat too much and it is probably them who are not digesting it all properly.

LK

Jem
Koi Lover

Sep 17, 2006, 11:55 PM

Post #12 of 18 (2107 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi ljkershaw,

I can see that you really love your kois and doing your best to help the one with the ulcer.

Did you isolate the little fellow? Is it still in the tank feeding together with all its pals?

If so, it is unlikely it will recover quickly, if not at all.

May I suggest that you put it off food until it is fully recovered. To aid recovery Kois can be off food until the wound has healed. You need not worry as they can easily survive for 3 weeks and more without food.

However, if you are unable to quarantine it then you will have to stop feeding the whole lot for the simple reason that the water should be as sterile as possible. It doesn't help to have fish poo, ammonia and other by products of food waste to hamper its recovery.

Hope this is of help to you.

Jem
Aspiring Koi Connoisseur

ljkershaw
Koi Lover

Sep 19, 2006, 4:41 AM

Post #13 of 18 (2043 views)
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Re: [Jem] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Jem,

I did isolate her originally whilst I was treating her with Iosal for 4 days but she was unhappy in the tank and the set up I had wasn't really suitable for keeping her in long term.

Now the tank I used has babies in! Ideally I would like to isolate her again as the spare tank is now better equipped but I don't want to uproot the babies and I don't really want to buy another tank.

I checked the ammonia levels in the pond yesterday and the levels are good. Is it possible to cut down the food rather than stop feeding altogether? The other fish will not be impressed with me if I cut off their food supply!!

LK

Jem
Koi Lover

Sep 19, 2006, 11:41 AM

Post #14 of 18 (2034 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi LK,

It's your choice. Do you want the koi to get better?

I know it is difficult but a little fasting is actually good for the other kois as well. They will look at you with their gaping mouths begging for food. Try fasting for a week or so if you are keeping them together. It won't harm them.

However, it might be better if you can get a small plastic quarantine basin say 3ft x 2ft x 18", half fill the basin with water, put in an air stone for aeration, keep salinity at .3 to .5 and keep the tub dark by puting a cover over it ( but leave enough opening for air ). This way the koi should stay calm and recuperate. Dont forget to do water change every day ( say 10-20% or any amount you consider necessary) and apply sufficient water conditioner if you are using tap water.

It takes lots of patience to treat kois albeit average or quality kois.

It's your call.

Jem
Aspiring Koi Connoisseur

Koi38
Senior Member

Sep 20, 2006, 7:08 AM

Post #15 of 18 (2013 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

LK,

If you can get Tricide-Neo dip, the ulcer will be gone in 3 days. Note, depends how big the ulcer is, but I've seen a friends koi with ulcer opening at 5mm and it closed up within 4 days using tricide-neo dip.

If you know how much food you give them per day, divide this in to 4 parts. Chuck some pellets for the aggressive once and wait for them to feed then chuck the rest for everyone to feed Smile

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

ljkershaw
Koi Lover

Sep 22, 2006, 4:46 AM

Post #16 of 18 (1942 views)
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Re: [Koi38] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is a very sad day today. I lost my first fish.

She has been distancing herself from the other fish for a week and has been looking more rounded than usual but she was been chased by another fish nudging her underneath so I presumed there was just funny business going on but it seems not...

She didn't come up to feed yesterday or this morning and tonight I found her lying on her side on the bottom. Unsure

On closer inspection she seems quite bloated and feels a little full of liquid. The ulcer which I treated which appeared to be healing looks angry and red again.

Not sure what happened but I misread the signs. I'm kicking myself...I should have stopped feeding and got her out of there!

LK

Koi38
Senior Member

Sep 22, 2006, 6:30 PM

Post #17 of 18 (1917 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

LK,

Very sorry to hear the bad news Unsure

From your statement, sounds like the koi was chased by males to spawn and with her conditions it didn't help and she was pushed to the limit, very sorry. I know it hard to lose a friend but this is all part of koi hobby, we learn from our mistakes Smile

Cheer up, you have the rest of your koi counting on you Wink

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

Jem
Koi Lover

Sep 22, 2006, 9:51 PM

Post #18 of 18 (1913 views)
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Re: [ljkershaw] Where is all the s* coming from?** [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi LK,

So sorry to hear you have lost your first fish. Unsure

It is so sad but like Koi38 said it's all part of koi hobby but you still have others counting on you.

BTW are the others looking alright? You will have to monitor them closely and be prepared
to take quick action should you observe any thing unusual.

With best wishes.

Jem
Aspiring Koi Connoisseur

(This post was edited by Jem on Sep 22, 2006, 9:54 PM)

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