Koi Forum (Nishikigoi - Japanese Koi Fish): Regional: Brunei: BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY

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BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY

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koi@kit
Senior Member

May 16, 2006, 8:33 PM

Post #1 of 27 (1613 views)
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BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY	Can't Post

Hi all...

my cifu always tell me bloodline stand 50% of a koi future... water quality stands 30% and finally 20% goes to koi food...

my question are.. Unimpressed

1.bloodline stand 50%, do u think a so so quality koi will score 50% in the future? Frown

2.when come to water quality, which one u think is good water quality, green or clear water? say both water parameter
is d same.. Frown

3.koi food... which koi food u think is the best? do u mix or just trust one brand? Frown

hope to get feedback from all the cifus, so dat many will benefit from this.. Sly

regards
kit

kemeer
Member

May 16, 2006, 9:42 PM

Post #2 of 27 (1611 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Interesting thread you got going here.... So is it bloodline?? Is it water?? Or is it food?? Crazy

I think we can come to an answer by doing a comparison on the amount of time taken to grow a koi to a certain length. Lets say a target of 1 feet from a koi of 15 - 20 cm.

Bloodline - From exprince bloodline plays a significant role in the development of a koi. Having played with average quality local breeds during the early stages of learning. Found out that even w/ good quality water and good food, there is a huge difference in the time taken for a local breed to achieve the 12 inch mark. Stats for local breed;
Local Breed took close to 6 mths to grow from 15cm to 12 inches mark.
Jap Breed took close to 3 mths to grow from 15cm to 12 inch mark.

cyrus_281
Koi Lover

May 16, 2006, 10:27 PM

Post #3 of 27 (1609 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kit,

Feel abit Blush

to give comments as I am just 4 months into the hobby. But anyhow this are my takes on the issue.

1) Its a rarity that a so so quality koi will be able to score 50% as it will not have that tendency in its genes. Those with bloodline have been critically chosen with respect of the parent koi special characteristics. After all, majority of organisms will acquire around 60% of the parents traits. (saw this in the National Geo mag)

2) Green water has been widely appreciate by fish hobbyists, not only koi hobbyists and it is claimed to enhance the colour of the fish. Fish is said to have the natural tendency to alter its colour accordingly to its surroundings. When I was younger caught alot of really red tiger fish from brackish waters, once in clear water in the aquarium, the red started to fade drastically.

3) Mixing food would be the best bet as the koi gets the best of all of them.

Regards,
Francis

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 17, 2006, 9:45 AM

Post #4 of 27 (1589 views)
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Re: [kemeer] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

cifu kemeer..

u r correct.. i have some add on to ur explanation on bloodline.. Smile

i found out dat a high quality koi with balance koi diet and good water quality will grow fast with good skin quality..
so so quality koi tend to grow plum or even out of shape even treat with the same food and water.. especially if u compare the tail tube.. Wink

..

how about clear n green water cifu? mixing koi food?

tks..

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 17, 2006, 9:50 AM

Post #5 of 27 (1588 views)
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Re: [cyrus_281] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi francis..

dont be shy about giving comment.. if u r rite many can learn from u, if u r wrong all can correct for u... Smile

1.in this case.. yap u r rite.. high quality koi parent tent to produce high quality offsprings..

2.long time ago, koi kept in mud pond tend to have very good skin quality, but recently artificial pond breeder like momotaro and sakai also capable to produce high quality koi in their artificial pond.. any comment on this? cud it be due to their filter system? any comment?

3.yes u r rite again, mixing koi food from diffrent brand benefits the koi as they received the best nutrient.. any comment on using live food?

cheers..

sunshinekoi
Member

May 17, 2006, 5:53 PM

Post #6 of 27 (1566 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Kit,
by experience, known bloodline saves a lot of unnecessary time wastage to grow to its fullest. But this all depends on the skill of choosing the koi too at that point of choosing.
Water quality or I should say water management to keep up with the daily feeding at optimum growth rate I can say it is hard and can also be difficult depending on space and depth. Big pond less easier to get polluted. Small pond with heavy feeding in my case is hard to maintain. ie. water parameter to the optimum is a regular monitoring work. This will rely on the filtration system and how effective it take cares of the living water of those Koi.
Mix Koi food is still debatable in my case since I havent tried all of them. hahahahah. so no comment. Sly

cyrus_281
Koi Lover

May 17, 2006, 6:59 PM

Post #7 of 27 (1563 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi kit,

From my personal observation, it seems that at one time or another momotaro and sakai keep their prized koi in mud ponds before transfering them to indoor ones. Even from the dvd itself, they often ponder upon whether to place koi with potential into mud ponds to enchance their growth. (I could be wrong Wink

) Just that at times they prefer to keep them indoors so as to be able to monitor their growth and condition. I think without a doubt, to them mud ponds are the best place to grow out kois. Just my thought.

As for live food, I have tried feeding them fresh peeled prawns every morning and could see substancial increase in girth. (Better to freeze the prawn before feeding then defroze them, for me its a better choice to take away the unwanted parasites in comparison to boiling as boiling will take away useful protein and vitamins)Will continue to do so once my pond is completed. Its also a known fact that prawns have a natural colour enchancer, so it won't just bring out the Hi on the koi but also the white and so on. Can't say much right now until a further month or two down the road. By the way, sweet potatoes seem to be good also.

Koi38
Senior Member

May 17, 2006, 7:18 PM

Post #8 of 27 (1561 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kit,

Bloodline definately plays a big part to grow beautiful jumbo koi Smile

Water and diffirent types of feeding quality are another. Good water quality means koi will grow healthy internal organs thus digest food nutrients properly = good body comformation, will grow alot quicker, skin quality, etc Wink

Diff type of feed is also important. Idon't have any japanese bloodline koi but I like feeding mine live worms, crickets, bettles apart from normal koi pellets. Shocked

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 18, 2006, 9:06 AM

Post #9 of 27 (1542 views)
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Re: [sunshinekoi] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi sunshine..

u r definately correct abt water capacity, over feeding and pollution.. dats why a small pond can only keep a few koi only.. imagine momotaro's 1500ton pond only have 70 koi in them.. Crazy

..

filteration is definately very important, i have seen small pond with big filter dat have very good water quality.. Cool

i personally think water turn over rate play a very important part as well..the faster the turn over the faster the water can be purify.. but choosing the correct filter also very important, conventional filter need slower water flow as the bacteria need time to 'work'.. latest will be BH which they can handle turn over rate of as fast as 3 to 5 x water turn over.. Shocked

many tks for ur contributions..

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 18, 2006, 9:13 AM

Post #10 of 27 (1539 views)
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Re: [cyrus_281] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi francis..

yes u r correct.. the cifus in japan keep their tosai in mud pond reason is to make sure the tosai grow with good body structures, which is important at dat time.. as the koi grow to a certain time they will be keep in artificial pond for close monitoring.. very good contribution..

many thanks for the information about feeding live food.. i think robert lee had tried using sweet potato, many robert can share with us his experience.. Wink

cheers..

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 18, 2006, 9:21 AM

Post #11 of 27 (1537 views)
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Re: [Koi38] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi master cifu..

u said it all... heheheheheh... dont worry.. one day japanese koi will swim into australia then ur dream will come true..
just one thing to share wit u.. yogurt can help to grow koi with healthy internal organ.. since they dont have stomach, lactobacillus will help a lot in their digestion.. wat do u think?? my cifu vincent of kepong and cifu thiamhwa both have tried it and their results are...incredible.. Sly

regards
kit

Koi38
Senior Member

May 18, 2006, 5:23 PM

Post #12 of 27 (1522 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

hi master cifu Kit

u said it all... heheheheheh... dont worry.. one day japanese koi will swim into australia then ur dream will come true.. Can't wait for that day to arrive. I might even meet the koi halfway in the pacific ocean Shocked

just one thing to share wit u.. yogurt can help to grow koi with healthy internal organ.. since they dont have stomach, lactobacillus will help a lot in their digestion.. wat do u think?? my cifu vincent of kepong and cifu thiamhwa both have tried it and their results are...incredible.. Sly

I've heard and read about this.......so its true hmmmmmmmm. How do you give the yogurt hand feed with a spoon just kidding Tongue

. Do you mix it with something Crazy

and what flavor, vanilla, choco or strawberry Laugh

rgds, Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 18, 2006, 11:48 PM

Post #13 of 27 (1508 views)
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Re: [Koi38] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

master cifu..

i mixed my yogurt with paste food..plain yogurt is the one i use.. Smile

i have heard robert lee put scotts emulsion in potato.. may b u can try put yogurt in potato n feed to ur koi.. will ask robert again n get back to u..

cheers
kit

Koi38
Senior Member

May 18, 2006, 11:52 PM

Post #14 of 27 (1504 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kit,

When you said paste food, what kind Crazy

I assume when you said potato its steamed not raw Tongue

I'll be waiting for more info Kit, thanks mate Wink

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 19, 2006, 12:08 AM

Post #15 of 27 (1501 views)
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Re: [Koi38] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

master cifu..

i use paste food made by izeki.. i think u need to steam the potato 1st then smash them n mix with yogurt..MAY B..
not confirm yet, will get back to u..

cheers
kit

sunshinekoi
Member

May 19, 2006, 10:10 PM

Post #16 of 27 (1465 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Maybe mesh potato can mix with paste food since it is so soft and can blend in easily. Will try that when have chance. Blush

Hope water is not polluted! Crazy

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 19, 2006, 10:21 PM

Post #17 of 27 (1462 views)
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Re: [sunshinekoi] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi sunshine..

in the momotaro video, they steam the potato n pumkin and cut into cube to be feed to koi...

not sure mesh potato with paste will be ok.. hehehhehe..keep us update bro.. Laugh

cyrus_281
Koi Lover

May 20, 2006, 12:53 AM

Post #18 of 27 (1453 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Kit,
I have tried the 3 kinds of sweet potato available, red, purple and the normal brown one. I would say purple is the best as after it is steamed, it still holds on to its texture when cut into small cubes. For me, this is the best method, peel the skin off, then pop it into the microwave oven for 5 mins on medium heat. Then just cut it. Koi's seem to love them. Reminder, purple potato is almost even in price to prawns per kilo. Wink

Regards,
Francis

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 20, 2006, 9:27 AM

Post #19 of 27 (1445 views)
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Re: [cyrus_281] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi francis..

for the time and $$ u spend on ur koi, it will be a waste u keep so so koi.. hehehehehhe..

high quality koi will grow well with ur caring like this.. Laugh

BRUCE LIM
Koi Lover

May 22, 2006, 3:47 PM

Post #20 of 27 (1414 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hey Kit,

From my understanding...Big mama koi produce big baby koi... Small mama koi produce tiny baby koi Laugh

.

Good water means good water parameters regardless of green or sparkling clear water Laugh

.

Good koi food mean healthy and happy koi Laugh

. Mixed koi foods like momotaro, izeki & hikari should make the koi happy and healthy..

koi@kit
Senior Member

May 23, 2006, 7:57 PM

Post #21 of 27 (1384 views)
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Re: [BRUCE LIM] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

yoo bruce..

seems like what u said is the same like what i said... Crazy

... u sure learn fast hahahahahahha Tongue

koi@kit
Senior Member

Jun 2, 2006, 10:07 PM

Post #22 of 27 (1316 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi all..

sunshine came to my place and had my water parameter checked with his high tech meter tester... this is his reading..
pH - 7.9
TDS - 90
GH - 1
oxygen - very saturated.

my test was ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0

well sunshine conclude dat my water improved since last time he visited me.. Smile

..

my point to discuss is.. is too much oxygen good or not good Crazy

?????

rgds
kit

Robert Lee
Koi Lover

Jun 2, 2006, 11:04 PM

Post #23 of 27 (1311 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

dear kit,

did you buy the yogurt or you it yourself.

Just in case you buy, i know how to produce yogurt.

Let me know Wink

koi@kit
Senior Member

Jun 3, 2006, 8:47 AM

Post #24 of 27 (1303 views)
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Re: [Robert Lee] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi cifu robert..

i used to make myself.. ever since i lose my 'parent' yogurt i cant make them anymore.. now i buy the local make fresh plain yogurt. sometime i use the yogurt powder from kepongkoi..

want to share ur knowledge of yogurt making to all member here?

rgds
kit

Robert Lee
Koi Lover

Jun 3, 2006, 9:30 AM

Post #25 of 27 (1299 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] BLOODLINE vs KOI FOOD vs WATER QUALITY [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear kit,

No problem I can provide members with the parent yogurt. In the past i will have coffee in the morning ,now a day i have a big glass of yogurt with orange flavor. Now the kois also have yogurt as part of their meal.
warm water, nestle milk powder and 'mother' yogurt is all you need and off course any flavor you want to add in.
I believe if the yogurt is good for human it should be good for koi Sly

Mixed the yogurt with steamed potatoes like you mentioned and let them dry a little and feed them to the fish in small balls. This is not cloud the water too much.
The mixture will take about 10 hours. ( Prepare about 9PM and by morning 5-6 am you have yogurt for the all family ( including kois ).
Uncomsumed yogurt must go to refrigerator to slow down further furmentation or esle they will turn sour ( some people prefer that ).
From my observation the koi skin also look better more shining. ( can not confirm yet whether this is due to yogurt ).
We will find how many people are interested and we can have a 'YOGURT PARTY'. Sly

Best regards

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