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TDS and koi growth

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koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 9, 2006, 10:19 AM

Post #1 of 71 (1693 views)
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TDS and koi growth	Can't Post

Hi all..

just want to share n discuss this topic of TDS with all of u.. feedback are most welcome..

reading an article from yumekoi, saying dat the secret of fast growth of koi in pond is not due to pond size or water volume, but Total Dissolve Solid. the lower the tds the better the growth rate.

i have tested some of the member's pond which i think their koi's growth rate abit slow,.. this is the servey..

9 ton pond with 9 koi (size 50cm to 65cm) - tds 224ppm ---- slow growth rate
2 ton pond with 8 koi (size 30cm to 65cm) - tds 140ppm ---- very good growth rate
20 ton with 13 koi (size 45cm to 75cm) - tds 85ppm ---- average of 2cm a mth.

i hope there's any comment or feedback from anybody who are intrested in the growth rate n water quality of their koi..

rgds
kit

sunshinekoi
Member

Aug 9, 2006, 10:45 AM

Post #2 of 71 (1685 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Cifu Kit,
so ar how to get that TDS down? Sly

Sunshine

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 9, 2006, 10:51 AM

Post #3 of 71 (1683 views)
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Re: [sunshinekoi] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

master cifu sunshine..

to get the tds down, first u must know wat causes ur water's tds to raise dat high..

wat i wud do will be to measure the tap water's tds then compare with ur pond water's tds.. the diffrences is more important. there are a lot of factors dat contribute to high tds..

1.overfeeding
2.chemicals
3.fish waste
4.salt
5.high Kh
6.high Gh
7.high mineral content in water

dats all i can think of rite now..

rgds
kit

Robert Lee
Koi Lover

Aug 9, 2006, 1:48 PM

Post #4 of 71 (1673 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear Ci Fu,

How about rain water? If rain water is acidic can we use rain and add carbonate.

Koi38
Senior Member

Aug 9, 2006, 1:57 PM

Post #5 of 71 (1670 views)
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Re: [Robert Lee] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Robert,

If rain water goes directly to your pond its okay specially if you have oyster shells to balance it out, but if you're collecting it from your roof forget it. It will have more foul checmicals than acid, IMHO Smile

rgds,
Jon

"DuKu Friendly"
_____________________________________
"No one is ever too old to know better"

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/Koi38/

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 9, 2006, 2:03 PM

Post #6 of 71 (1668 views)
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Re: [Robert Lee] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

cifu robert..

grandmaster koi38 is very correct... no doubt rain water have very low tds... but.. if come from roof or area with highly polluted, ur tds surely will b high as well.. they fall to the category of dissolved metals n pollutant..

rgds
kit

sunshinekoi
Member

Aug 9, 2006, 2:53 PM

Post #7 of 71 (1662 views)
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Re: [Robert Lee] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Cifu Robert,
IMHO, One way I would suggest is to have a few drum covered with mesh on top and leave it on the garden (not taking rain from roof). When rain comes, you can leave the rain water there for a few days with oyster shells dipped. Then get the top 2/3 of the rainwater out supply to your pond and drain out the bottom 1/3 of the drum. Before you put rain water into your pond, make sure it is ph7-7.4.
sunshine

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 9, 2006, 2:59 PM

Post #8 of 71 (1661 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi all...

reading an article from yumekoi, saying dat the secret of fast growth of koi in pond is not due to pond size or water volume, but Total Dissolve Solid. the lower the tds the better the growth rate.
this statement is base of good bloodline.. a low quality bloodline koi will not have good growth rate even at low ppm tds..

bloodline - 50%
water quality - 30%
koi food - 20%

rgds
kit

Robert Lee
Koi Lover

Aug 9, 2006, 10:39 PM

Post #9 of 71 (1647 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dear Grandmaster Ci Fu

Thanks for your notes and infact my pond is beside my partion and rain water from main roof and roof does flow into my pond. How I have layer of geotextile over my pond shade which can filter my minute particles. Hope it works that way .

Robert Lee
Koi Lover

Aug 9, 2006, 10:44 PM

Post #10 of 71 (1645 views)
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Re: [sunshinekoi] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ci Fu Sunshine

Drums I have no problem will try that, Oyster shell also no problem.

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 10, 2006, 10:24 AM

Post #11 of 71 (1630 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi all..

collected some rain water yesterday afternoon after the "thundery storm".. Laugh

... tested their KH and TDS..

pond water - 2'KH ... TDS - 83ppm
rain water - 1'KH ... TDS - 11ppm

some said RO water or rain water can lower TDS and KH... any comment?

dafish
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2006, 1:07 PM

Post #12 of 71 (1622 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Sai Hu Kit,

Let me summarise what TDS is in a simple term -

TDS or Total Dissolve Solids is a measure of how "well-used" or how tired the water has become.

Found an article regarding TDS

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)

Water is sometimes called the universal solvent because so many things can dissolve in it. As water interacts with the atmosphere, biosphere, rocks, and soil in a watershed, many materials are dissolved and carried away. Total dissolved solids (TDS) include all suspended solids that may or may not pass through a filter. Some dissolved solids come from organic sources such as leaves, silt, plankton, industrial waste and sewage. Some dissolved solids come from inorganic materials (such as rocks and air) which may contain calcium bicarbonate, nitrogen, iron phosphorus, sulfur, and other minerals. Many of these materials form salts. Salts are compounds that contain both a metal and a nonmetal. Salts usually dissolve in water forming ions. Ions are particles that have a positive or negative charge.
A constant level of minerals in the water is necessary for aquatic life. Changes in the amounts of dissolved solids can be harmful because the density of total solids determines the flow of water into and out of an organism's cells. Many of these dissolved solids contain chemicals, such as nitrogen, phosphorus, and sulfur, that are the building blocks of molecules necessary for life.
Concentrations of total dissolved solids that are too high or too low may limit growth and lead to the death of many aquatic organisms. High concentrations of dissolved solids may also reduce water clarity, contribute to a decrease in photosynthesis, combine with toxic compounds and heavy metals, and lead to an increase in water temperature. High concentrations in drinking water may give the water an unpleasant taste and could result in a laxative effect.

dafish
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2006, 1:36 PM

Post #13 of 71 (1615 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

rain water contain acid..and acid can further breakdown those "solids" in TDS thus reducing TDS??? HAHHAHA....dont know true or not laa....but one thing for sure is after rain, pond water seems soft in my pond..

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 10, 2006, 1:43 PM

Post #14 of 71 (1614 views)
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Re: [dafish] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

sai kong dafish..

very informative articles.... u dont have to work kah? still can get info from internet Mad

.. hahahahah

by the way, momotaro have tds lower than 50ppm and kh of less than 1..... they grow koi pretty fast.. soo shud they increase their tds and kh?? comment please sai kong...

p/s.. ur pond expose to rain also, how much ur tds? 10ppm? Tongue

tks for the info hehhehehe Laugh

rgds
kit Laugh

(This post was edited by koi@kit on Aug 10, 2006, 1:45 PM)

dafish
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2006, 1:53 PM

Post #15 of 71 (1611 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

sai kong ur head lah///

aiyoo...my pond expose to rain from the roof mahh...my house roof got so many "VIRUS"...so my tds is high lohh 140+...

aiyoo...dont put me into this kinda situation lehh..compare with the expert...

"dont fix it, if it aint broken"

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 10, 2006, 2:03 PM

Post #16 of 71 (1609 views)
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Re: [dafish] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

woooooooooooo... dont fix it, if it aint broken... Sly

.. dats a good one..

dont worry lah, just jocking with u..

tds of 140 is quite ok.. must check ur KH, may b only 1' ....

dafish
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2006, 2:08 PM

Post #17 of 71 (1608 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

and one more...MAI KANASAI....ahahahhhahahhahahah Laugh

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 10, 2006, 2:13 PM

Post #18 of 71 (1606 views)
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Re: [dafish] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

dats another good one...

tds high doesnt mean ur water no good, same as clear water doesnt mean water is good..

high tds might have kh1 (carbonate low) but high mineral content (GH high), this is good for koi's skin quality..

clear water might have high ammonia n nitrite.. u dont know if u dont check.. correct?

dafish
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2006, 3:44 PM

Post #19 of 71 (1599 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

of course correct....SAI HU ohhh...haahah...

the best way is to check water parameter. However, i don think there is an answer to it on how low should the tds be...but one can guarantee that tds will effect the growth of your koi..

sunshinekoi
Member

Aug 10, 2006, 5:13 PM

Post #20 of 71 (1595 views)
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Re: [dafish] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Dafish,
I dont know what is the reading on your kH but I guess would be on the higher than 2. In a condition which you rely on rain water for your pond, you need higher kH to act as a buffer before your pH swing. kH is calcium carbonate which will react with rain (which has acid). when these 2 reacts, the water become not acidic but just above pH7. But if your kH is low means low calcium carbonate and therefore may not be sufficient enough to react with acid rain to neutralise and hence lower pH (become acidic)
Sunshine

dafish
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2006, 6:05 PM

Post #21 of 71 (1593 views)
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Re: [sunshinekoi] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

wah chim leh..Mr President...i need to check my PH liaoo..scare liaoo me...long time no check...thanks for your input

Robert Lee
Koi Lover

Aug 10, 2006, 10:10 PM

Post #22 of 71 (1578 views)
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Re: [dafish] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi All

Talk about thds i do not any one can beat my. Ask Sunshine what was the reading taken from my pond.?

Now trying to reduce the tds

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 12, 2006, 8:33 AM

Post #23 of 71 (1543 views)
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Re: [dafish] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

sai kong dafish..

people will tell u tds must be as low as possible.. IMHO.. i think this is very hard to achieve, unless....

tds of below 100ppm, 50ppm to 80ppm to be ideal.. u might have low KH, but GH is important as well.. low GH can be a problem as well, as theres low mineral content in water..

rgds
kit

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 12, 2006, 8:38 AM

Post #24 of 71 (1542 views)
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Re: [Robert Lee] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

cifu robert..

yes u r rite, nobody can beat ur TDS.. Laugh

..

but i find it strange since ur pond expose to rain water how can tds goes soo high? cud it be overfeeding, chemical in water?? ur water is soo crystal clear... hmmm.... a good way to study, either BH can lower ur water or rain water dont help lower tds, etc etc...

best is to add bh slowly as suggested by cifu kemeer, the way to learn..

rgds
kit

koi@kit
Senior Member

Aug 12, 2006, 10:32 AM

Post #25 of 71 (1532 views)
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Re: [koi@kit] TDS and koi growth [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi all..

just to share a piece of info collected from yumekoi...

HIGH GH/HIGH TDS
good sharp white ground n sumi development, bu poor growth rate
ideal for koi showing or those have less time to maintain pond
high GH can also cause hi to break up.

LOW GH/LOW TDS
high growth rate
deep n even hi
softer white skin
slow sumi development

rgds
kit

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