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Newbie pond building, Help pls

 






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chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 22, 2007, 5:41 PM

Post #1 of 39 (1338 views)
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Newbie pond building, Help pls Can't Post

I'm sorry to ask but i'm trying to help my father build a koi pond on a tight budget, so i been trying to do some research on where i can get equipment for koi ponds in manila.

First of all i was wondering if anyone sells Pond liners in manila or should i use cement .

Second does anyone know where i can get the other equipment needed like the filtration system or the pumps and pond skimmer, bottom drains.

Sorry if my questions are kinda ignorant but i just started looking into koi raising, and there is a lot more to it then i ever thought.

Thanks to anyone who can help.


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 23, 2007, 12:46 AM

Post #2 of 39 (1315 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

that would depend how much is your budget?


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 23, 2007, 7:31 AM

Post #3 of 39 (1308 views)
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Re: [RamilDy] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually thats my main problem now, i'm supposedly suppose to canvas and give my Dad a budget but i'm not sure were to find some of the parts (pumps, filters, etc). So i have not been able to make a budget, cause i dont want to tell him an unrealisticaly low price, then go overbudget. They are also redoing the garden so i know the money is pretty tight thats why i have do it DIY and not a profesional pond builder.

I thought it would be more affordable to use a pond liner but i'm not sure where to get it. We do have people to make the Pond itself if we have to use cement. The Pond itself will be around 14 ft by 8 and around 4ft deep. I'm also trying to learn how to make a filtration system.

Thanks, looking foward to learning more the intricasies of this hobby.


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 23, 2007, 10:17 AM

Post #4 of 39 (1305 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you know that pond liner cost much here in the Philippines most people here just use trapal for tent.

What are you planning to do? a formal pond can't be done by your self if its just any ordinary pond will be a lot easier.


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 23, 2007, 7:09 PM

Post #5 of 39 (1291 views)
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Re: [RamilDy] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just looking to make a simple pond with a filtration system nothing really fancy cause i want to learn more about raising koi before splurging.

I didnt know pond liners were expensive here, when i've tried to do research on the net for pond equipments it usually goes to US retailers, which have premade pond kits and everything, i'm not sure whats available in manila, and where to get it.

I probably use cement cause i'm scared trapal might easily tear after months of being soaked in water. I read from this site that sahara cement is good plus elastomeric paint. We do also have know a worker that has made swimming pools and a pond before but i just, wanted to know more about it so i'm sure he is building it right.

I also am trying to look for more information making Filtration systems, cause i know its essential for a good pond.

Sorry if i'm confusing, i'm been trying to research and read up on this hobby but there is so much information that its a bit overwhelming


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 23, 2007, 7:46 PM

Post #6 of 39 (1290 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

basic filtration dito sa Cebu gamit namin bumili ng malaking container tapos lagyan ng butas tapos bumili ng submersible pump tapos yung foam ng sera tapos carbon yun lang but in one month twice ka mag linis yun lang and nakakapagod.


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 24, 2007, 6:30 AM

Post #7 of 39 (1278 views)
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Re: [RamilDy] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks alot i'll try something like that, i think i saw plans that are similar to this at Skippys biofilter


Thanks for the help


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 24, 2007, 2:57 PM

Post #8 of 39 (1266 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

No problem hehehe


tangigi3
Koi Lover


Jun 25, 2007, 10:43 AM

Post #9 of 39 (1238 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just looking to make a simple pond with a filtration system nothing really fancy cause i want to learn more about raising koi before splurging.

splurging. by the time you decide to splurge, you will realize your pond is either not big enough or deep enough. by then its too late cus the structure is already there.

its best to do it once and do it right, as I am sure a lot of members here would agree.

water pump approx 20k upwards depending on brand
airpump approx 3k upwards
brushes approxs 120/pc peso upwards (at least 12k depending on setup)
jap matting approx 3k upward per piece ( maybe 12k for a chamber)

check out mikoi pond project. in the philipppine section.



chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2007, 11:25 AM

Post #10 of 39 (1236 views)
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Re: [tangigi3] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks

I'm beginning to see that it is going to be a bigger project then i expected, oh well. I know some people who have made some fish ponds, but i dont think koi ponds, so i'm doing research on the filtration system. Does everyone use settling chambers and what filter media do people use. I read PVC shavings were good but i dont know if you can get them here. Also is using UV a must here, and how much would one be.


I was also just wondering what is the best shop to go to to canvas for equipment in The manila area. I heard about Koi and Ponds, but are they complete with their equipment or are there other shops in manila

Thanks a lot for all the info


(This post was edited by chamber on Jun 25, 2007, 11:47 AM)


tangigi3
Koi Lover


Jun 25, 2007, 12:17 PM

Post #11 of 39 (1229 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no best shop here. you have to canvas around.

pvc shavings? are you planning a bakki shower.

there are many style in building a filtration system. the most traditional is the 3 stage filtration system. Koi and pond employs a long throw system. a person I know has 3 huge vortex system. others use bakki showers.

confused? go traditional

as I said check out mikoi's post


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 25, 2007, 2:02 PM

Post #12 of 39 (1219 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

wow I though you are planning to build a pond with very limited budget, by the looks of it you are planning to build a formal pond. Wink

How much is really your budget? 50T or 100T? Cool


koi-ya-koi
Koi Lover


Jun 25, 2007, 4:02 PM

Post #13 of 39 (1212 views)
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Re: [tangigi3] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Chamber!
I'am also a new member in this forum. I just started building my pond here in San Fernando, Pampanga. It's a 5x5x3 ft. And so far I've spent Php5,000.00(and still climbing). I don't pay for labor because I do it myself masonry, plumbing, electrical etc. and all. I even cook for my merienda. AngelicHehehe! Here are the steps in building my pond:

1. I dug up a hole measuring 6ft wide by 6ft in length and 4ft deep. (but the exact size as stated above differs? why?to make room for me to work on. plus the allowance would suffice for the finishing and stuff)

1. Next I use 4x8x16 hollow blocks (a lot of these are hangin out in my lot so I thought I use it instead) and an 8mm steel bar(Php65.00/pc) to enclosed the just made hole. Using Excel cement Php178.00 per bag.(whichever you prefer. they're all the same.), 1cu meter of sand at Php235.00, 1/4elf gravel Php550.00(btw elf is not a measure unit. It's that truck they use in hauling this stones) I then stuffed the blocks with cement mixture using 6parts of sand for every 1part of cement. If you prefer to have a gravel mixture as well then for every 4parts of sand mixed with 2parts of gravel and 1part cement. Need I say add in some water while shoving and mixing? Sly




2. Lay out the foundation for the flooring and make sure you have room for the piping system(PVC pipe 1" in diameter x 8" long Php120.00/pc). Install an additional pipes just in case you need to put in a compressor to blow in an O2. I also used the 8mm steel bar to create a mat like structure to be layed down on the floor. This is sandwiched in between two layers of cement mixture as described above.



3. After a week of curing the cement. I then applied the finishing (palitada). Then another 3days for the cement to dry, I then applied 3 layers coating (3hrs in between) of Thoroseal (local hardware for Php800 a gallon). Then applied a final coating of Flexseal elastomeric paint(I think it's also Php800.00 per liter?) The bottom flooring should be slanted to form a cone like shape for the dirt to accumulate in this area, which in turn the motor will suction this and deposited to a nearby physical filter. The skimmer you see in this diagram is made out of 4" PVC and is meant only for catching bubbles, dirt at the surface level of the water and the extra rainfall and will be trown to the drainage system.

4. I use 0.5 HP 36L per minute motor ( I bought in soler recto) for Php1,500.00. As compared with the Sequence750-1000 brand Since i'm planning to run this motor for 2hrs. only with 1hr. interval using an electronic timer circuit I custom made from a previus electronic project. Fitted with a (check valve Php358.00) at the end intake pipe to avoid priming the motor every each run. I wouldn't be using it 24hrs (although recommended)






5. The filter system is made out of hollow blocks and steel bars also, and is elevated at 2ft. from the ground. It is located just beside the pond (a foot away) and is made up of 3 chambers which can contain up to 7~10 liters of waters each from the pond. The first chamber is cone shaped and half filled with lava rocks (Php100.00/sqm from a local garden shops scattered along Mc. Arthur highway along San Fernando Pampanga.) The bottom end has water control valve(around Php250.00/pc) to expell excess dirt from then tank. The 2nd chamber has columns of custom made strainers made out of Fish nets from Divisoria (Because Jap mats at Kois and Pond is being sold to me at Php5,000.00/per unit. WOW!!!)The last stage has coral chips and pebbles plus a UV treatment. It will finally go back to the pond via waterfall through a 2(two) control valve installed side-by-side in this last stage using g r a v i t y. Why 2? Because the water flow at section 1b, 1c and 1d may caught up with the flow at 1e (see illustration above) So you really need to control this section (timplahin so to speak).


So there you have it. How I was able to build my pond from an initial investment of a little close to Php5,000.00.
Lastly, don't get too much excited. You need to test first your pond for leaks and most importantly the quality of your water and filtration system. I'm sure we both can find tips in this forum to go with that. Wink

Note: All materials used and discussed in this thread are available at your local hardware (Philippines). The price quoted above may not be exact but should be a ball park figure.


(This post was edited by koi-ya-koi on Feb 7, 2008, 9:11 AM)


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2007, 4:36 PM

Post #14 of 39 (1206 views)
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Re: [RamilDy] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Well i was hoping to do it on a tight budget, but with how much the equipment seems to be i'm not sure if that is possible. I also started looking at pictures of other peoples ponds and i'm startying to get envious, so i'm just pacing trying to pace myself, learn a bit more so that i don't overreach in the budget. I also am also scared that i might need a UV cause the location of the pond get some somelight at someponint of the day. Hopefully i can keep it 50k or below. Money is pretty tight cause we are redoing are whole garden also and its a pretty big garden. I've been looking a lot at a forum called Koiphen that has lots of plans DIY equipment plans and other plans. I might try some of them if they work then i might use it.

i think i finally found the mikoi pond thread is it called 4th time around?, im checking it out now.

Thanks for the info again, it been a lot of help.


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2007, 5:17 PM

Post #15 of 39 (1201 views)
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Re: [koi-ya-koi] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks a lot Koi-ya-koi that was a lot of help, i'm impressed that you got it done on P 5,000. Hopefully i can keep my budget down. I'll check your filtration system, i was thinking of using a few 50G barrels and daisy chaining them together with PVC but it kinda looks ugly. I may just use the hallow blocks and cement to make the filration chambers.

Thanks again for showing your plans, that really a lot of help.


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 25, 2007, 5:51 PM

Post #16 of 39 (1197 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

hahaha his pond is only 5X5X3 chamber how big is really your plan?

pond plus a super filter and pump will cost much more any idea how big is your pond will be?


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2007, 6:28 PM

Post #17 of 39 (1194 views)
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Re: [RamilDy] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

hehe, around 12X8X4 to maybe a bit bigger. i know, i'll probably have to make a much bigger filtration system(more money). Can i run a pond this big with 1 pump(hoping)?. i am going to use that elastomer and thoroughseal for the pond though.

I was wondering if anyone can answer a few of my question.

- Whats is a Trickle tower?

- Are the japanese mats for mechanical filtration

- Can you buy bottom drains and skimmers here or do you have to fabricate them.


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 25, 2007, 6:57 PM

Post #18 of 39 (1193 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

one pump on that pond will do there are a lot submersible pump that are powerful enough.


kennethc
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2007, 9:09 PM

Post #19 of 39 (1182 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Rule of thumb is that all the water should run through the filtration system once every hour. So your proposed pond at 12X8X4 feet comes to 384 cubic feet or 2,873 gallons (10,875 liters). So you have to look for a pump that can turn over that much or at least once every 2 hours, maybe you can even get away with 3. Since you're on a tight budget, I recommend the Resun pump (SP-9500 I think) thats rated at around 4,000 LPH (I think). I recommend you put it in the last stage of your filtration chamber and not in the pond itself.

Check this site out for pond construction

This is a DIY trickle tower. Its used to reduce nitrates in the water. Inside is lava rocks for the biological media, but bioballs can also be used. Since you're new, better research on the "Nitrogen Cycle" to learn the hows and whys.




Japanese matts are for traditional biological filtration.

You don't need to buy bottom drains. You can ask your guy to make one. Just put the drain pipe there with the elbow or T fitting, then get a kawali and fill it with cement for the hood (make sure its bigger than the pipe). Make sure you put feet on it so it is elevated by .5 inches off the pond floor. Its not really necessary as you might be able to get away with a normal storm drain. But recommended because it causes the sucking power of the drain to instead of focusing
directly up, to the area all around the hood so that all the crap and debris gets sucked in more efficiently.



(This post was edited by kennethc on Jun 25, 2007, 9:17 PM)


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 25, 2007, 11:11 PM

Post #20 of 39 (1173 views)
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Re: [kennethc] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks a lot i'm going to try looking for that pump you said, and thanks for the advice on the bottom Drain.


koi128
Koi Lover

Jun 26, 2007, 12:10 AM

Post #21 of 39 (1169 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

hi there

well about kois and ponds, please read what i posted here in the forum and be ready when you go there. be prepared :) advice lang yan :)


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 26, 2007, 8:00 AM

Post #22 of 39 (1162 views)
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Re: [koi128] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the advice, as of now i'm going to try to canvass to look for the best prices. Being on a tight budget every little thing helps.


thiamhwa
Member / Moderator

Jun 26, 2007, 10:29 PM

Post #23 of 39 (1143 views)
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Re: [chamber] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi chamber,

With regard to the Bottom Drain construction, if you are going for concrete construction, you may consider
the 2 pipes system for the Bottom Drain. The concept for this Bottom Drain is to flush out the waste
products which are collected at the base of the bottom drain immediately through to the Dry Chamber so
that the ammonia built up in the pond water will be reduce.

I think you would have seem the typical Down and Up filtration system sectional drawing when browsing through Mikoi's 4th. time around pond construction thread. In my opinion, I think it is better for you to adopt the 2 nos. separating wall biological system chambers.

Anyway, it is better that you should spend more time researching the pond construction and filtration system
before embarking on the project.

Best Regards,
Thiam Hwa


(This post was edited by thiamhwa on Jun 27, 2007, 1:23 PM)


RamilDy
Koi Lover


Jun 27, 2007, 2:37 AM

Post #24 of 39 (1128 views)
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Re: [thiamhwa] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

wow too much technical di ko kayang gawin yan hehehehe basic lang kaya koWink


chamber
Koi Lover

Jun 27, 2007, 9:22 AM

Post #25 of 39 (1119 views)
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Re: [thiamhwa] Newbie pond building, Help pls [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, those were some of the most detailed plans i've seen thanks a lot.

Sorry for my ignorance, but i was wondering what a Uni-ring is.and do you lose a lot of water if part of your drain goes directly to the dry chamber.

Second, is i have seen the plans of Mikoi's filtration system and i was thinking of doing something like that, but im not sure what the "2 nos. separating wall biological system chambers" you were talking about is?


Third can you a swimming pool skimme for the pond?


Thanks a lot, sorry about the questions, i've been trying to take in us much information this last few days but there are still huge gaps in my knowledge about koi ponds.

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