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leraning about koi

 





 


peterk
Koi Lover


Nov 26, 2005, 8:52 PM

Post #1 of 23 (1995 views)
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leraning about koi Can't Post
hi

I am green in koi keeping having started 4 weeks ago with a 3foot tank with external filter system..
I read with interest u guys communicating in this forum, members like Wtansk, GCspyder always full of advice for the koi crazy crowd.. hope to meet u guys. Incidently just read about the gathering at Zoin farm but a bit too late.. the meeting must be over.. can u guys keep me inform of gatherings hope to meet u..

I am working on a koi rectangle pond 5mx2mX1.2m about 9metric tons (where the pond is 1m submerged)
with a 4 chamber external gravity filter each 1mX1mx1.2m effectively 4meters square
but not linear but in a box/square formation....

propose filter material
1st chamber empty or brushes settlement chanmber
2nd chamber japanese matt
3rd chamber oyster or cockle shell for Ph stabliser
4th chamber submerged pump 9000 litre per hr type

question
whether
- pond structure ok
- filter structure is ok..
- how to clear waste from the 4 chambers since it is submerged, by pump? cannot be gravity since it is submerged!
- rain water from roof good for koi.. acid????

lots of questions, need lots of advice from u season koi keepers...

cheers

Peter Kwa 96681909


johnteo
Koi Lover

Nov 27, 2005, 10:48 AM

Post #2 of 23 (1946 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi, there is a few things that I would like to ask:

1. Is it a fibreglass ready made or are you building a concrete pond?

2. Your external filter is submerged? same level as the pond?


The dimension of the pond is alright but too shallow. Try to at least have a depth of 1.5M. The deeper the better.
The stuff that you are putting in the filter seems ok, but remember to introduce air into the bio compartment. The filter will be more efficient this way.

Regarding your question on purging the filter chamber, If the filter is ready made, it would be better to provide us with a picture. If it is not made yet, we will be able to provide you with better construction ideas.

Rain water is not good for koi. However it you have a good collection of rain water, you can introduce into the pond only after you have stabilise the ph of the rainwater (very important). Furthermore, it would be advisable to run the rainwater through some sort of filter to remove impurities.

Basically, if you are planning to build a new pond from concrete, I believe many of the people here can give you valuable inputs into the construction.

PS. How many pumps do you have?


wtansk
Member

Nov 27, 2005, 9:36 PM

Post #3 of 23 (1919 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hello Peter, welcome to koi hobby. You are on the right track to enjoy this hobby by looking into how to have a good pond system. Too bad I do not own a pond and cannot advise you on a good pond system. But plan in a BS system if you can. It is far more effective than the submerge filter.

On clearing the waste, you can have a separate small clearance chamber with a level trigger pump. The bottom drain from each chamber upon open will have the waste flow to this clearance chamber. The level trigger pump will pump out the waste until you close the drain from the other chamber. The drain open/close control for each chamber is located inside the clearance chamber.

If you don't understand, I can draw a diagram to show it clearer.


peterk
Koi Lover


Nov 30, 2005, 12:07 PM

Post #4 of 23 (1802 views)
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Re: [johnteo] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
thanks for ur advise, i am planning to make a concrete pond submerged hopefully to start in jan05.
owing to the area available i.e away from the sun, esthetic etc,
it looks it might be 5mx1.4X1.2 and 5mX0.6x0.6m
meaning a 2 tier pond (because of .6m sewer line runing parrallel).
and submerged with 0.3m pond wall above ground

Is it practical to do a 2 tier pond? never heard it done before..

It looks like i will divert rain water away thru gutters rather than go thru purifying process...

It looks as through i might need a 16,000 pump tsumi?? or something it has been higly recommended and an addition cheaper 9,000 DAB for standby and for draining waste material from filter (sewer only 0.6m below ground level)


peterk
Koi Lover


Nov 30, 2005, 12:16 PM

Post #5 of 23 (1800 views)
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Re: [wtansk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Wtansk

what is a BS system, external box filter? above ground. when to look around in Mainland, Qian Hu they recommended concrete filter mainly because these filters unable to cope with "all the shit".

ur explanation on waste handling is too deep for me to understand, hope that u care to further elaborate.

cheers


johnteo
Koi Lover

Nov 30, 2005, 12:41 PM

Post #6 of 23 (1790 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi, I am not too sure what you mean by having 2 ponds at different height. If these 2 ponds are next to each other, it would be better if you can join the external walls together to form one pond with varying depth. If the two ponds are seperated, I am afraid that the two individual size are not good for koi, too small.

If you go for the 2 tier pond, have the filter at the lower end, with pump pushing water to the higher pond. The water from the higher pond will then overflow to the lower pond maybe via a small waterfall.

For a better understanding of Bakki Shower, either go to www.momotaro.com and see under air explosion or do a check over the internet. It is difficult to buy the filter trays, most of the forumers here DIY their trays and purchase their bacteria house media from the dealer. The filtration method is supposedly very efficient in ensuring good quality water for your pond. However, if you have a good size cement filter, you can make do without the BS by proper maintenance of the filter.

If possible, do a simple scratch of your propose pond and the forumers here will assist in anyway possible. Difficult to presently visualise how you plan to have the pond constructed


peterk
Koi Lover


Nov 30, 2005, 1:10 PM

Post #7 of 23 (1783 views)
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Re: [johnteo] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi john

I have 1 pond with 2 depth levels 1.2 and 0.6m (owing to the sewer running below)

basically a 4 compartment filter but designed in a box rather than normal linear fashion


peterk
Koi Lover


Nov 30, 2005, 1:14 PM

Post #8 of 23 (1782 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
sorry did not know how to upload diagram

meanwhile here is a simplicity (not crude comments on primitive drawing!!) diagram of the pond and filter
Attachments: mypond.JPG (21.1 KB)


johnteo
Koi Lover

Nov 30, 2005, 3:52 PM

Post #9 of 23 (1749 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi, thanks for the drawing. The plan of your pond and filter looks good. I am having problems saving the drawing for piping in your pond into jpeg file. Anyway if you are in Singapore, I can fax you what I think the piping should be.

Basically, 2 4" bottom drains to your first chamber (settlement chamber). 2 4" pipes (from top to bottom) to bring the water to chamber 2. 2 4" pipes (from top to bottom ) to bring the water to chamber 3. 2 4" pipes (from top to bottom) to bring the water to chamber 4. Chamber 4, 2 2.5" pipes connected to 2 omni-U pump to pump water back to pond, ensuring that the water moves in a circular direction.

I think that there is just too much information that you need to know, and it is difficult to convey such information thru' words. There are important things like how the flushing will be done in the filter chambers and things to put inside. Additional stuff like overflow pipes, discharge pipes, isolating the settlement chamber and so on. Send me a private message and I can fax you my amended drawings. Thanks


peterk
Koi Lover


Nov 30, 2005, 4:24 PM

Post #10 of 23 (1742 views)
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Re: [johnteo] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
hi john

my fax is 62849239 thanks
or email kwa168@yahoo.com

what is the specs of the omni pump are these submerged...or above ground

i was thinking of installing 2x4" pipe from pond to settlement (1st) chamber one at the bottom and another about the rim of the water line.

Do i really need bottom drain in the centre of the pond or a bottom 4" pipe hole at the bottom of the pond nearest to the 1st chanmber enough.
where can i get the bottom drain where I could shut for maintenance

how do i send a private message ??


johnteo
Koi Lover

Nov 30, 2005, 5:33 PM

Post #11 of 23 (1728 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Peter, Just fax you a rough scratch, you see sure blur. After looking at you drawing, I think your filter is too small. Surface area of filter approx. 2m sq and the pond is 10m sq. The filter area should be at least 3m sq. If you have space constraint, you can make do with this size but your stocking level must be low. If not add a trickle filter (external). It would be better to have 2 bottom drains (4") and possibly one 4" surface skimmer. The bottom drains to the settlement chambers can be isolated by having the pipes protrude up by 4 inches and the surface pipe can be closed with a 4" cap. When you want to drain the settlement chamber, just insert 2 4" pipes onto the 2 4" protruded pipes. This will isolate the chambers. After flushing out the chambers, remove the 2 pipes and water will flow back to the settlement chamber. Chambers 2, 3 & 4 would each have a pipe at the bottom connected to chamber 1. These pipes would have on/off switch. When doing flushing, switch of 2 omni-U pumps, isolate the settlement chamber by inserting 2 4" pipes, switch on all the flushing pipes, and switch on the discharge pump. Rinse chamber 1, switch off discharge pump, remove the 2 4" pipes, top up with good water, and you are done. sounds complicatedCrazy? Anyway, consider my drawings and call me for further details.


peterk
Koi Lover


Nov 30, 2005, 5:58 PM

Post #12 of 23 (1721 views)
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Re: [johnteo] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
   

interesting.. learning lots of new things already..

do i need 2 pumps is it for backup ??
are these omni-U pumps special..
what sort of capacity gph or litre ph do i need...

is there a place where i could see actual pond filter system..

i will pick up the fax later

thanks


GCSpyder
Koi Addict


Dec 1, 2005, 8:40 AM

Post #13 of 23 (1676 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Peter,

Just a quick check. Are you joining us for this gathering? The usual suspects are going to be there http://www.koi.com.my/cgi-bin/koiforum/gforum.cgi?post=70932;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Cheers..


peterk
Koi Lover


Dec 2, 2005, 10:28 AM

Post #14 of 23 (1597 views)
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Re: [GCSpyder] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
go some commitment on 11dec 1000-1400 hrs let me of any change in timing...

thanks


peterk
Koi Lover


Dec 7, 2005, 2:46 PM

Post #15 of 23 (1525 views)
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Re: [johnteo] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
hi John

thanks for the saturday outing, greatly appreciate the help and introduction...

can i have the specifications for the fibre glass matt for concrete pond and any contact nos....

one of your friend is running a tickle filter system, can i get his contact?? i hope to see the workings it seems that the tickle system seems quite effecient and not so noisy..

thanks
peter kwa


johnteo
Koi Lover

Dec 7, 2005, 6:58 PM

Post #16 of 23 (1487 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi,

To Fibreglass a cement pond,

1. Paint 1 coat of epoxy resin clear
2. Put on a layer of chop strand matt
3. Paint another coat of epoxy resin clear to ensure that the chop strand matt stays firmly on the concrete,
4. Paint 2 coats of epoxy paint black

The brand that I use is: Chop Strand Matt (230gsm X 30 kg roll)
Evershield epoxy sheating
Epontfloor 460 black


johnteo
Koi Lover

Dec 7, 2005, 7:14 PM

Post #17 of 23 (1483 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi, if you are interested in making a Trickle Filter, you can search this website, there are tonnes of stuff on DIY trickle filters. I found the easiest to build is the one similar to http://www.texaskoi.com/Articles/KoiPondTT/do_it_yourselfTT.htm and http://www.koi-uk.co.uk/trickle_tower.htm. These filters are just a tall container containing probably bio-balls, bio-home or lava rocks, with water trickling down on them. Quite easy to do with large PVC pipes. I actually not too sure who has one but Wtansk has built a working BS system a while ago and it seems to work quite well. Maybe you want to look at the post "DIY BS filter". You can also look at APBLw post on his trickle filter. According to him, his water parameters improved with the introduction of the filter.

John


peterk
Koi Lover


Dec 7, 2005, 7:20 PM

Post #18 of 23 (1482 views)
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Re: [johnteo] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
thanks john

i believe that this still require water proofing membrane below this treatment...

who is the guy on saturday with 2 kids, forum name?? heard that he is running a TT/BS filter ??


wtansk
Member

Dec 7, 2005, 7:28 PM

Post #19 of 23 (1477 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
APBLw


johnteo
Koi Lover

Dec 7, 2005, 7:53 PM

Post #20 of 23 (1462 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Peter, if you fibreglass your pond with the resin and the matt, there is no need for waterproofing before that. The fibreglassing is suppose to waterproof the pond and prevent leakage from future hairline cracks.


johnteo
Koi Lover

Dec 7, 2005, 8:11 PM

Post #21 of 23 (1461 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Peter, There is this product in the united states that is suppose to be gaining popularity in Europe for application on koi ponds. www.liquidrubber.ca . paint 2 coats of this product on the pond and that is. Waterproof and prevents leakage. Most important non-toxic. So far no response from them from my e-mail.
This product have been used to waterproof marine commercial aquarium and so far the product has been performing well.
If you have contact with the building material brand "Lafarge" or making a trip to US or Europe, you can bring a few cans in.


APLBW
Koi Lover

Dec 9, 2005, 12:27 AM

Post #22 of 23 (1436 views)
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Re: [peterk] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi Peter,

That was me that you spoke to that day.
Understand that your concern was on the potential noise that a BS can potentially make.

Just need to warn you..... the effect of a TT is not as good as a BS... but so far.... it serves its purpose for me...
The difference in the flow rate is a lot slower too.

Pictures of my TT is linked here...

http://www.koi.com.my/forum/Regional_C8/Singapore_F21/My_pond_%28help_required%29..._P57169/

Its basically modifying planter boxes to contain trays and trays of bioballs. Asthetically not too nice lah.... Blush

Suggest that you do what WTANSK did for his BS and modify it for a TT system (ie use bioballs lava rocks) and reduce the flow rate using valves.... and reducing the noise by using a drip plate.

His link on BS is here....

http://www.koi.com.my/forum/Regional_C8/Singapore_F21/DIY_My_BS_System_P59456/


The whole concept of TT in reducing nitates is detailed in this thread....

http://www.koi.com.my/forum/KOI_Talk_C1/Pond_Construction_%26_Water_Filtering_System_F4/High_Nitrates_Level_Try_This%21_P3071/

Hope that the information helps.
Do drop me a PM if you want to my POOR MAN setup....Smile

CheersSmile


peterk
Koi Lover


Dec 10, 2005, 10:06 PM

Post #23 of 23 (1359 views)
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Re: [APLBW] leraning about koi [In reply to] Can't Post
Hi

Thanks for the info...still go to study the input and settle on my pond design...

Will keep in mind the BS/TT system especially to treat nitrate...

If u guys need plastic containers there is a Toyogo plastic warehouse sale shop in Toa Payoh (near TanChong/Nissan workshop), there u can find a huge variety of plastic containers some in industrial standard...

 
 
 



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